My mother is going to drive me insane.... (if you have other plans for today you might not want to read :P)

I've been letting a situation lie instead of dealing with it and it's now biting me in the rear. I need a third party opinion before I do something I will regret.

Here's the history - my mom and I have never had a close relationship and over the years, things have happened that have made it worse. There were some hurt feelings during my parents divorce that have never been reconciled...figured it was better to just let it go as the past has happened and we can't change it. But things keep happening. I'm not sure if it's just a mom thing, but she keeps trying to interfere and/or control my life. After college, I lived with her for about a year and got fed up with it and moved out.

For the next 4 years or so, she was kept on the periphery and things seemed to go well. She was still a part, but not a close part of life. Then I broke my engagement and ended up moving home. Lots of hard things going on and just couldn't financially live on my own. I started planning early last spring to move out on my own - wanted to have a few financial issues dealt with. Well my boyfriend, he did some dumb things and ended up in jail. While we were separated, we wrote just about every day. Well my mother got very concerned and asked a friend to look into his past (I had no idea this was coming) and there were a few things there and basically tried to use it to break us up. I told them both to back off and knock it off - I am an adult.

The straw that broke the camels back - I had not finished responding to a letter and had put it back in an envelope a certain way (all letters were out on my nightstand) and when I went back to finish, I noticed it was not in the way I had left it. Big deal...perhaps I had put it back differently but I had a feeling my mother had read it. Let it go, until my boyfriend got a letter from my mother's friend - and in it he referenced things that had been in that letter. I hit the ceiling! She read it, fine. However she knew I didn't like her friend and then had the nerve to tell him the contents. I knew she had reservations about the relationship, but I am an adult and it ultimately is my choice and I don't take kindly to her interfering. At this point, I talked to a few other trusted adults (ones that knew the both of us) and they agreed that it was time for me to move out. Oh and when she found out that I talked to someone outside about this, wow was she mad. My response - tough, you shouldn't have put me in that situation.

I found a roommate and moved out within a month. I did it all without her help and even had a professional come in and clean her house after I moved (she was in FL for a month). She was kept at arms length for a few months...then I started the "guinea pig trials". Unfortunately I needed more help as there were many days I wasn't up to driving. So I allowed her back into my life. Then she got rather "bossy" about my meds. "Well you shouldn't take that" or have you taken a triptan yet...stuff that is between me and my doctor and is my call on whether to take things. I've backed off and quit telling her about it. If she asks how I am the answer is always "fine", even if it's a bad day. She still is trying to interfere with my relationship with my boyfriend. He was released in January and had to meet with his PO and got a tongue lashing for things I had casually mentioned. I had no idea she was still up to this. At that point, I blew up and her response was that I was being too secretive about my relationship. Well no duh - I tell you something and it comes back to bite me. So I've quit telling her things about that too so she has no way of interfering.

I'm also rather tired of having to deal with things on my own. I have a younger brother and if he needs anything, she drops everything and rushes to help him. Money seems to not be an issue when it comes to him, although she will loan me money she expects to be paid back asap. I think this is oldest child syndrome and have come to expect it, it just gets old.

Well the thing that sent me over the edge - I walked in last night and it smelled like gas. My roommate was home and I figured she walked in with gas on her shoes. I got changed and the downstairs neighbor came knocking (I live in a 2 flat) and said they had a ton of water leaking downstairs and wondered what was above it that was leaking. I opened the door to the laundry room and there was a ton of smoke and water all over the floor. My roommate had thrown a load in the washing machine and not paid attention to it. Not blaming her (well totally) as the washing machine had something wrong but she would have caught it if she hadn't been in her room with the door shut. So we opened the windows to let the smoke vent and grabbed the mop and bucket - thank goodness we don't have carpet. The downstairs neighbor was back as she was concerned about carbon monoxide - she had a alarm that gave a readout and the number was rather high (granted not sure what we are looking at and if it's accurate).

I called my mom - sort of a "you're not going to believe what just happened" and I was going to ask for her help in mopping up the water. Well I got to the part about the CO meter and she flipped out. Without having the meter and being able to tell her anything about it, they assume the worst and I never got to asking for help. My brother did say that based on the number it is high (don't know if it's right) and then they start arguing that I need to leave and on and on. Oh and my roommate left for something which I said was fine and they tell me to call her because she needs to come home and help with it. I've still got a ton of water on the floor, a low grade M and tell them I'm not going to argue with them over this and hang up. I went and sat in the kitchen and had a good cry - just too much all at once. They call back and my mother starts in on how I need to leave and I'm in no mood to have this discussion and tell her to back off...she gets snippy and I hang up. They call right back and leave a message - I'm not about to answer it. I ignore it and keep mopping while watching my dogs. I figure if something is up, they are going to act different as I can't trust myself to be able to tell if there is a problem. They act fine. I get cleaned up and listen to the message. She had the nerve to call a local motel and work out a deal (I can't go there for a night - it's 3 blocks away but my brother is allergic to my dogs and we can't set him off). She goes on and on and I delete it before she gets to the end. At this point I'm ready to write them off.

I get on line to see if there are on-line instructions for the CO detector and in my perusal I find an image of a detector and happen to look up. Notice that there are 2 detectors hanging on my wall. Grab a chair and one is a CO detector and it never went off (I know it's still working cause the light keeps blinking). Well there was nothing to be in a tizzy over. My brother does call me later and I talked to him and told him about the CO detector and that things are okay. I know he was just concerned and I wasn't ever really mad at him.

My roommate called later as she left before I had gotten things squared away (I had told her when she left that I would let her know if things were a problem and she'd need to find another place to crash). She had gotten 2 calls from my brother (on behalf of my mother - wasn't ever put this way but I can read between the lines). She was just checking in with me to see what was up - I told her everything was fine and we'd talk later.

I am still so steamed at my mother and I know I need to address this but am afraid it will come off wrong. She's still my mother and I don't want to damage things further.

Any thoughts or insights are appreciated.

Wow... I'm not sure how I would respond, and when that happens, I let things lie for a day or two until I calm down and get some perspective. I wouldn't take her calls, just let the machine get them. You can call her back later. You need some time to get some distance.

She is your mother and and busybody mother who doesn't understand boundaries. You are right in not sharing things with her as she finds ways to use them against you. I am sure she justifies her actions by saying that she is acting this way because she cares about you, and I am sure she does.

Having said that, after a couple of days go by, sit down and write a letter explaining to her why you are upset and why you need to set boundaries that she has to comply with or risk not being part of your life. You do not have to send the letter unless you want to. In fact, don't sent the first letter, send the third or fouth version. it is amazing how much clearer you get as you rewrite this type of letter.

If you don't send the letter, you have at least used this execise as a way to clarify what you want to say. Have a discussion with her and let her know that you love her, but you have trust issues and you need to set some boundaries, etc and that you need to be able to trust her to trust you about yourself. You are an adult and do not need your actions scrutinized and turned against you. You would like to be able to call about a bad day or unfortunate event without it turning into what you should and shouldn't be doing. Just commiserate and help IF ASKED.

I hope this helps.
I feel for you,
Hugs
Alli

Howdy

This is an example of a fool rushing in where angles fear to tread ... but what the heck, I will rush in anyway.

1. Do NOTHING about your Mother until you have calmed down ... way down. Like a week or a month. Let these emotions have thier life. Feel them. Deal with them. But take no relationship action.

2. Your Mom needs to attend an Organizing Institute put on by the AFL-CIO. She is a natural born organizer and may have a real career opportunity helpin people that actually need her help. Red Cross disaster team also comes to mind. Really, your Mom is amazing in her ability to evaluate a situation and organize a response. Negotiate a motel room 3 blocks aways? Amazing! Hire that woman!

3. When it is time, when the emotions have cooled down, come back here and read these questions:

A. Why is your brother buying in to mother's manipulations? Why is he calling you when she beckons? why is contacting non-family folks on your Mom's behalf? What's up withe that? Is it time to have a serious talk with your brother about HIS role in all this (your life)

B. why are you still running home to Mommie when things go wrong? Can you, as a strong adult woman, develop other resources - friends, agencies, etc. - so that yo never have to run home again? Can you pretend your Mom can NOT ever help you out again and develop different resources?

C. What's up with a roommate leaving an apartment when her wash caused a mini-disaster? Why are you left to mop up her mess? Are yo being a bit of a floor mat here? Is this the way you wish to handle these situations as they arise in the future? What are your alternatives? Can you say "Stay and help?"

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:

Is your Mom ever going to change her ways? If not, what can YOU, and you alone, do to create a relationshbip that works for you? Without counting on her for support? (Her support has come, comes, and will come with a price tag.)

Yeah, divorce issues are in the past. But dealing with those issues are today's business. I really suggest counseling to help you sort those feelings out and REALLY put them in the past. I have been to counseling (coming out, divorce, grief, disaility) and I strongly believe in a professinal counselor to really help deal with situations.

I am on your side and strongly support you. Remember that you are a strong, intelligent woman. You can lead a successful and joyous life if you choose to do so.

Good luck with your love life. Think about that relationship real hard too. I ask AND I am ONLY asking if part of his attraction is your mother's distase for him. Just asking.

One final thing. Different treatment of your brother by your Mom has nothing to do with birth order. Mom's all ove the world have very different relationships with son's and daughters. And the daughters lose. Sexism is alive and well even in families. Just my view of the world.

One clarification point: my mother lives 3 blocks away - the motel was across town.

Thank you both - will be doing some deep thinking, and probably a bit of crying. But I know enough to not act on rash thoughts or actions - which is why I ask for an outside perspective.

On a positive note - maintenance guy was here and the washing machine is toast so I'm getting a new or new/used one.

That would be so un-nerving to have someone snooping into my business and then sharing it with others. Crossing one boundary after another!

Keep your distance, keep everything on the surface, and I agree with Alli, write that letter whether you send it or not.

I had the opposite situation with my Mom. I was the favored child. While I relished the relationship with her, it made me feel very uncomfortable in that I felt bad for my sister. I'm sure it has much to do with the uneasy relationship I have with my sister to this day.

Then it extended to the grandchildren. My eldest was BY FAR the golden child. My Dad had to call my Mom on it several times.

Charlotte

This is very complicated, and seeing how it only progresses over the years not improves I would strongly suggest professional therapy for both of you. For the whole family actually.

Risa

All right - I've now had a few days to let things go and to ponder things (Richard had some really good points that have sort of smacked me upside the head - duh moments for me).

First of all, my mother has not attempted to contact me. One of those twisted things - wondering a bit why and wanting it to be like it was and then coming to the realization that why do I want that? I have a feeling she is expecting an apology...which is going to make church tomorrow, really interesting.

I will be writing a letter in the next few days depending on how I feel. Started back on depakote last night and it was an interesting night and we'll see how things go (hopefully no side-effects and it works). The effects I experienced last night - I think that would be a topic for another thread...completely bizarre but perhaps related to this mess. I am good at doing letters - and it usually is effective. I've done it in the past and it's an easy way for things to be phrased right and things not to escalate.

I've also realized that I need to start being more self-sufficient. I need to find a way to get things done without relying on mom to do them. I have others who have offered to help and I need to start taking them up on things. I also do know people who I'm sure would be willing to occasionally drive me home from work if I'm unable (they live not too far away). Richard - you are right here. I need to branch out and start accepting the help that is offered. As for the roommate - this is something I've needed to deal with for a while. I have been letting things slide and taking things on myself rather than making her share the load. It's been complicated but things seem to be back to normal and it's time she starts really pitching in.

I know many of you encouraged therapy. Which isn't a horrible idea but I've been in it a few times and it really hasn't helped. Other than them being a listening ear - which I can call upon others for anyway it was a waste of time. Perhaps I didn't find the right therapist but my overall impression has been why bother.

I do need to have a chat with my brother however (he's having difficulties and is moving home to my mothers) as to what he needs to do i.e. if I tell him things they need to stay between us and he is not to interfere in my life on behalf of my mother. There are a good many things that stay between him and I anyway as my mother has a very skewed view of certain things (mainly relationships and physical contact).

Well thanks for listening and giving advice. I just didn't want to put my mother in lesherb (Leslie) situation where a child has cut off contact and she's clueless as to why.

I know many of you encouraged therapy. Which isn't a horrible idea but I've been in it a few times and it really hasn't helped. Other than them being a listening ear - which I can call upon others for anyway it was a waste of time. Perhaps I didn't find the right therapist but my overall impression has been why bother

You are right. It's a waste of time if you don't have right therapist. Listening ear is not enough, you need guidance.
Honestly, I am at loss how to find the good one - maybe call around and ask how they deal with family cisis?

Risa

Finding a good therapist? Like finding a good doctor. Steve needed an HIV doctor when we moved to San Francisco. He went for coffee in The Castro every day for a week. He asked around as to who the best. The one name that came up the most is the one he went to see ... and he is still my doctor.

But not being gay, you do not have the vast resources every gay man gets when he is recruited and gets his first toaster for signing up. (BIG grin)

My doctor referred me to a counselor once and the match was most excellent ... doctors that we like know us, know therapists, and make matches all the time. the otehr way to find the right therapist is to ask your friends. You will surprised at how many of our friends, family, and co-workers use therapy as just another human need like a doctor ... another vital link in the healthcare team.

Or come to Richard for advice ... though my time is VERY expensive ... have to pay for a new kitchen someway! (LOL and only kidding - I am NOT a therapist and do not pretend to be on on TV or the Net.) When I need directive advice, I come here and listen to Risa chew me out for doing something dumb ... she is the best ever at disagreeing without being disagreeable. Must be all that strange Canadian cooking.

Good luck to you ... and do not give up on therapy.

Question - How many times did YOU ASK your therapist for advice? In this life I find I get exactly what I am asking for.

lol Richard! .. If only I could put my own advice to practical use, I could straighten my own life in no time

Risa

I know anything worthwhile takes time and effort. That being said...around here mental health is not something that is championed and to get a referral....you pretty much have to be severely clinically depressed or suicidal. That's how my insurance is...there is no referral from a doctor but you have to call their medical health "hotline" where they see if you "qualify" - ie you have to know all the hot buttons to say if you aren't about to hurt yourself. They will allow you to chose a provider if you know of one (and they are accepting patients), otherwise you get assigned...oh and they have to be in the provider network. And heaven help you if you want to change providers...ie start over. If it was like picking my OB/GYN (which I have to do again...sigh) it would be much easier. No referral necessary, network restrictions apply, but this is sort of like any other "specialty" doctor - you ask around and find out who's the best and make an appointment.

I'm not totally writing off therapy...just not right now. I must have just gotten a few that don't work for me. And I the times I did go...I really was looking for guidance and got zip. I had specific problems I just didn't know how to deal with and needed to at least see what the options were cause I couldn't see them at those times. I quit going - I ended up figuring it out on my own and quit wasting my time. This has been 3 separate times...either I'm horribly unlucky or it's just not for me (or the mental health providers around here really need to be in another line of work). I take that back...I remember a 4th but it was something very specific and the counselor at that time, that was all she did and knew how to work with people in that situation. If I there was someone who did more general counseling like her, I would go but I think she was one in a million.

For the most part, I'm a happy, well-adjusted adult with an overbearing parent that needs to quit being passive and learn to draw some lines in the sand. I also had an enlightening conversation with my roommate yesterday in regards to my mother. Seems the blinders are starting to come off as to the person she is (outside of being a parent). Glad I'm not the only one seeing this - just affirms I'm not totally in the wrong. I always take part of the blame in a relationship (doesn't matter what type) as I'm sure I could always have handled things better (like instead of hanging up the phone, just laid it down and walked away). Sort of like insurance companies - if you're ever in an accident, and you didn't technically do anything, you are still partly to blame for being there.

So Richard...shall we start a payment plan? I could send a spoon at a time. I would send food, but I don't think it would make it through the mail unscathed. Oh and a completely unrelated note...when viewing your avatar, I assumed you were the one on the right. (this is from the hair dyeing thread) You are aging well, sir.

Most of the time, I just need a third party to tell me if I'm completely off my rocker or if I'm sort of right. Having a short temper, I have learned not to act on first impulse as this is not how I want things to be once I have cooled off and am back in my right mind.

In that picture, I am on the left. I dyed my hair for years but then it fell out ... so I shave my head and dye my goatee.

Steve is on the right and was always a handsome fellow until the day he died.

I wondered about the dye....just know that often facial hair starts to go gray when the head hair does (my dad's did anyway). And Steve was a very handsome fellow.