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The key to a successful marriage (and what to look for before making that commitment)

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Post  VickiG Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:35 pm

I've written before wondering why so many marriages fail, but this time I have a new angle to ask. What does one look for in a dating relationship to get a sense that marrying that person will end up successful? I'm watching right now as my best friend is going through a separation from her husband. They'd probably be divorcing if not for the fact that her green card requires her to remain married for two years, and if she got divorced, she'd be sent back to Mongolia, meaning that she would have to give up her 7 or 8 month old son to her abusive husband. She doesn't trust him with the boy at all. To get at her, he took the boy, who was running a a fever of 102 degree (for the non-Americans, normally body temp is 98.6, so this is a pretty high fever, especially for a baby), outside in 60 degree weather wearing nothing but a onesie. She thinks he did this because he knew that it would make my friend upset. So she is doing everything she can to protect her son from her husband, which means in this case that she has to stay married to the jerk until her green card becomes permanent because it's better to deal with being mistreated herself and watch like a hawk over her son for two more years than get free of him for herself and let him take over her son, who would suffer untold damage from him.

When they were in Mongolia for her mother's death and funeral, the man actually hit her, claiming that he had looked it up, and Mongolia doesn't have any domestic violence laws, so it was legal for him to hit her there! That makes me the most angry! What a sadist!

And for those who think that she just married him for a green card, she was actually on her way to getting a green card through my church, but the law said that because she married an American, she had to apply that way instead of through her job. And with the change in the economy, it would be really hard to justify giving a green card to her through her work now when so many Americans are out of a job. I think that she sabotaged previously relationships just because she didn't want to be seen as trying to marry the man in order to get a green card. She has lived in the U.S. since 1996, when she first came here to go to college. She was one of my undergrad roommates.

But rather than get into discussions of my friend, I want to focus on what I can do to prevent something like that happening to me in the future. There were a few red flags with her husband before they got married. I asked her tonight if in retrospect she sees anything, and she said a couple things. He used to try to tell her to eat healthier and more vegetables, but then it seemed like he was doing this because he cared for her and wanted her to be healthy. Now he tries to control her diet. Also, one time when a service man came to her house, he made a move towards her that scared her. She was going to report him to the company, but her then-boyfriend, now-husband told her that it wasn't a real issue and not to report the man. And the biggest problem was that he was tied too closely to his mother, who is more important to him than his wife is. His mother is trying to get him to take the baby with him to visit her for Christmas and leave his wife at home. My friend won't allow that to happen, but that means that instead, he may just go by himself to visit his mom instead of spend his son's first Christmas with his wife and son. If that happens, then we get them for Christmas!

As I have posted before, I have just started to see a man I met on eHarmony. We went out on one date on Sunday, and we are going out again tomorrow evening. I think that I am even more cautious about the potential relationship than I normally might be because I see how much my best friend is struggling and am afraid of something similar happening to me!

I asked my parents their thoughts about the issue, and they had a few comments. My dad said that my friend and her husband broke up a couple times and got back together before getting married, something I hadn't known. He also suggested that it would be valuable to go to couples counseling before marriage (maybe even before geting engaged) to see if that person can help identify areas where we might have trouble and to help us decide if we are truly compatible. I think that the guy I'm seeing would be open to that, as he talks freely about the psychologist who helped him when he first fled to the U.S. from Iran. He adored her so much that when he became a U.S. citizen, he took her last name as his. Ironically, shortly after that, she got divorced and changed her last name! But he has been to couneling again in the past, so he probably wouldn't be afraid of the stigma of that, as so many men are. My dad's other comment is that eHarmony in particular is known for having put a lot of research into what kinds of questions to ask to make good matches of people. It's not like a typical website that just pairs people who are available and live in the same area. It really does pair you with someone who expresses similar values and desires. I've been surprised to find someone who is a strong Christiain conservatively who also is a Democrat. Too many evangelical Christians (and I use that term to mean someone who believes the Bible is true, not to mean the wackos who particularly like to claim the title) think that Christian is synonymous with Republican.

But I thought I'd ask you wise people your thoughts about what I should be on the alert for and how to make sure that I know the man well enough to avoid running into the same mess that my best friend is going through. I already was nervous about such things because a number of my childhood friends have gotten divorced in the last year or two, but seeing my best friend deal with it step by step has been especially scary to me. I don't want to end up like her! What do you suggest?
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Post  dawn.binks Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:48 am

vicky what is especially important for you is that your christian beliefs are the same, it is very important to be of one mind in this.

my husband and myself became best friends before we started going out and are still best friends before we are husband and wife.

trust is a foundation stone and for you it will involve both parties opening up and knowing all your pass so you dont go finding out thinggs further down the line that destroys trust.

spend lots of time chatting and time with your friends and family aned his and you see how he is with his family and you with yours.

good luck

dont rush.
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Post  VickiG Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:57 am

Thanks, Dawn! My best friend met her husband through a Christian dating site, and he seemed to be very Christian. They went to church together and prayed and did devotionals together. So obviously that isn't the full solution. I've met friends who seem to think that if you're Christians, you won't be divorced, but Christians get divorced at the same rate as people who are Christians. So that also has me concerned. But I do believe you're right that lots of prayer must go into making such a decision. I do like my dad's suggestion that even before we get engaged, we go to couples counseling to learn what issues we are likely to face in a marriage. And I'm not specifically talking about the guy I just started dating. Things are too new there to jump to this level. But I am thinking of someone someday. I know that my church has engaged couples take a computer survey that asks a million deeply personal questions that are then sent to a centralized database to analyze what areas they are likely to have conflict. The pastor doensn't see the answers to the specific questions, just the generalized comments about areas they need to work on. SOmething like that might be valuable too.
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Post  pen Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:59 am

After all but 40 years of marriage, I still dont feel competent to offer advice.
But, I think friendship is the key.

We were friends before we were a couple.
Now my health has meant that is pretty much all we have to go with.
Its tough. But thank goodness we had that in the first place.

We have totally different views on religion, but it hasnt made much difference.
Im not saying it couldnt have been better with the same views, but it hasnt been destructive.

I also think people make too much of having "things in common".
I dont think we have much in common at all, but we have similar views on things
and never had any "super Nanny" moments about raising the kids.
We both believed in discipline and consistency. They worked. sunny

I would look for a guy who loves animals....yea sounds a bit lame I know, but they tend to have a more tender heart.
And would make a good Dad. And my husband is NOT a romantic. I wish he was, but two of my friends romantic husband's
went of to be romantic elsewhere, and forgot to tell their wives.... affraid

I think I am better at answering questions than just putting out advice, but thats my top of the head thoughts...

P

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Post  Mini Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:56 pm

Looking around you, you will soon see that marriages are as varied as individuals, so comparing yourself to anybody else's marriage is quite pointless. Each person background, life experience as well as expectations are quite different, and they bring all this baggage to a marriage.

In the same way you cannot epect to be happy (or unhappy) in your relationship just because you friends has good (or bad) experience. All you can do, is to try to choose better, and to be much more cautious before you get commited to someone, in marriage. Take long to get to know him. You cannot hurry the process - even if you are anxious to get that ring on your finger - take it step by step.

You are right that you do not need to have everything in common, but having the same values, and cultural background definitely helps, specially in resolutions of conflicts, and when difficulties arise (because they will).

It is very easy to be blinded by romance of exotic stranger in the begining and read into situation things that are not there, or misread words and intentions, by projecting wishful thinking as reality. But your expectaions, might not be what he wants.
So take your time, and test your man. Men being men, they do not really value anything that comes to easy to them.

Most importantly introduce him to your friends and close family, as they often see things that you might miss.
One of the best way to realise that a man cares about you seriously, is to see that he is is proud to be seen in your company.
Therefore, if after several weeks he has never introduced you to any of his close friends, or family this should ring alarm bells - he is not treating you seriously.
Or, if he avoids meeting your family and friends, by making excuses, when invited. This is not going anywhere.

Mutual attraction is not enough - you need to like the whole person and be at ease in their company, by developing a feeling of deep mutual trust, "give and take" on both sides from the beginning. Can you be utterly yourself with him, tell him your secrets, laugh with him, and cry with him? A real, friend in good times and bad. If so you have an excellent chance.

It all takes time, rushing too fast is often a quick way to nowhere,to lot of unnecessary pain. I hope things will work for you with your new friend but it is early days as you said.





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Post  Petzi Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:33 pm

Same here. Hubby and I were friends before we got together romantically. He was just so much fun to be with. I did not fancy him to begin with, but the more I got to know him the more I liked him until I could not help but fall for him. Being friends first also eliminates a lot of potential pitfalls. You won’t become friends with somebody who is not on your wavelengths.

I also agree with Pen that any potential husband has to love animals. I just don't get people who have no connection with animals. To me it is an indication that they lack some sort of vital emotional intelligence.

P.
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Post  Guest Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:05 pm

Vicki,

Whoaaaa....don't rush. You're still in the whole realm of dealing with a bunch of tough things in your life. Adding high goals regarding to relationships makes things a whole lot tougher.

Remember to keep this in perspective--you're dating right now. One of cardinal sins of dating is dating to find a husband or wife. If I'm going out, there's no way my intent is to find a wife (well, if she is really rich and has good health insurance,.....just a joke Very Happy ).

What's odd for me as a guy headed to middle age, LOL is the same women that I met years ago that gave me a spark then, still do now.

My florist is one of them. I met her when I was 17. I think she's about 12 years older. There's always a fun flirtatuous converstation whenever I go in for something and I see her at a lot of social functions.

I know I have to take into account want and need. Biological clock, ok I brought it up, so anyone can feel free to beat me up. I've just decided to heck, live life and what happens, happens. However I won't ever jeopardize my stability and future just for a relationship. Can't do that. I may live to 50 or 100. We'll see.... With the stats on how much marriages evaporate these days, it makes the whole process more stressful.

Unfortuneatly, it's not like it was in high school or college. I know one really nice girl, extreme marriage material, I'll never forget. She invited me to her wedding. After she hounded me 3 times to go, I finally capitulated and going along with a mutual friend. I didn't know this, but I was seated with the groom's family. I don't know if it was coincidence or payback. Who says karma doesn't exist?

So when the question arose at the reception, "so how do you know Jenny?" Ummmm.....quite awkward. I said, "We used to date." Our drinks were quickly downed, and I was out of there.

Anyways, a bit of ancient history and rambling. I guess my point is take your time...take the pressure off of yourself to find a perfect date to magically end up married.

As always, good luck! rendeer

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Post  CluelessKitty Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:11 pm

Didn't we already discussed that, not that I mind, absolutely not, just that I am scared I am imagining things!

But I could swear I delved into a theory how we first and foremost need to know ourselves best,
know what we can give and want to receive before we begin the relationship.

Risa
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Post  Petzi Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:53 pm

Risa: You are not losing the plot and are imagining things. We did discuss this before, but there is a lot to say about this topic and since Vicky has met somebody she likes why not discuss it again?

I disagree with Marc. Vicky is no spring chicken anymore and she has said that she wants kids, so it is understandable that she wants to get on with the process (biological clock!). Yes, relationships turn sour, but you cannot endlessly put this off out of fear that it might not work out or because you are looking for that elusive "perfect" partner (who doesn't exist by the way). Try being the perfect partner instead of expecting to find the perfect partner. I find that very often you get back what you put in. As my husband puts it - live is like a bank account. You can not keep withdrawing funds, without ever making a deposit.

Marc (the commitment phobe I love you ): I sympathize with your fear of gold diggers, but clever people invented prenups. Why not take advantage of this?

Vicky: Don’t think or overanalyze too much. You are a clever girl and you are mature enough to make a judgment without being “blinded” by love. Trust your instincts and just go with the flow. The rest will sort itself out. Good luck!

P.
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Post  Guest Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:08 am

LOL Petzi!

Prenups....ha. Most women cringe at that, unless they have more money. And of course, the optimum wife will have at least a net worth of a liquid 1 billion dollars, and be a supermodel, and of course have excellent health insurance.

And yes, I am joking.

If I recall correctly, I'm only a month or two older than Vicki. So the clocks are ticking....but my clock is a Cuckoo clock.

mgb

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Post  Brenda Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:04 pm

Porsche Fan wrote:LOL Petzi!

Prenups....ha. Most women cringe at that, unless they have more money. And of course, the optimum wife will have at least a net worth of a liquid 1 billion dollars, and be a supermodel, and of course have excellent health insurance.

And yes, I am joking.

If I recall correctly, I'm only a month or two older than Vicki. So the clocks are ticking....but my clock is a Cuckoo clock.

mgb

Naw, Marc, not all of us balk at prenups. When I found out that DH's family (thought not DH) had money, I volunteered to sign a pre-nup. DH wouldn't hear of it. I guess our roles were reversed. But then again, we were older.... and we both were dating looking to marry. We knew what we wanted. Maybe we were just very lucky, but it's worked perfectly for us. We're great together. We only knew each other for 10 months when we married.
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Post  Mianna Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:24 pm

Vicki.....like was said before, don't date for marriage..........date for fun and the experience of the 'cold call' type experience. Just keep gaining more stories for your history! When you aren't planning on it...'he' will show up!


Marc.........Kills me I can't know you in 'real' life and tease you and be an older sister (just a little older!) and set up with friends! You are such the catch...not because you are smart and engaging and love your family.........but because you are so funny! I have to stay around on Ronda's long enough......more than the 10yrs I've been here already.......to see you post....."I think I've met my St. Pauli Girl !!"

Warm wishes and dating fun to you both!!!
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Post  Guest Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:33 pm

You ladies give me a good chuckle. Laughing

I can't help that I use some financial forecasting skills to predict future life costs. All of these irritating health problems just won't seem to go away for some (ha, genetic) reason. It's imperative that I'm able to financially support myself for however long that I may live. Petzi might be right--I may be risk adverse to losing my shirt, especially when I know that I'm dependant on medication to live and now that my heart is battery powered. Just maybe Brenda some day I'll put the spreadsheets aside!

Surprisingly, pacemakers are cheap. Cardiology charges were only 2,600 bucks, paid by insurance. Hospital charges shouldn't be much.

And yes Mianna my friend, I have actually spent many nights with St. Pauli Girl. We've had many occassions of in depth conversations. She's been quite beautiful, but quiet. As the nights that I'm spending with her go on, she lets me talk and talk and never gets tired of my boring conversations.

Maybe it's because she's stuck on a beer bottle. scratch Hahahaha.

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Post  Petzi Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:11 pm

Marc,

Financial forecasting skills? Are you a banker?

P.
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Post  Petzi Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:35 pm

Marc,

when I was younger I had the biggest crush ever on a guy who was from a wealthy family. I was poor and he could not have been less interested in me. The Mr. Darcy moment never happened for me. I then went on to marry a guy from my social background with ambitions and we both worked our backsides off to get to where we are now. I could not have achived it without him and he could not have done it without me. Don't put a relationship off for fear of financial hardship. You migth be positively surprised by a clever and ambitious woman.

P.

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Post  Guest Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:16 pm

I'll try and not be too conservative Petzi. I know, that can really cause a wrinkle in relationships.

I'm not a banker, but my first masters degree is in Business Administration with a strong financial background. My dad's a finance guy so I've picked up on a few things here and there.

Definitely in the early years of a person's life they can get a good foothold. Most in the U.S. make the bulk of their wealth in their 50's and into their 60's. With the challenges that my health throws at me, I can't be too sure of what the future holds, thus my financial eye on the future.

Right now, I can't even plan out past a month or two due to tests, procedures, and doctor's appointments.

But heck, you can't be too conservative and not take risks.

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Post  Petzi Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:37 pm

Good boy! Financial forecasting is anyways overrated. Just look at our current recession. Most of my friends and acquaintances work in finance. Not one of them anticipated the credit crunch.

P.

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Post  VickiG Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:35 am

I know that I have brought up this topic at least twice before, but that was because I never really was satisfied with the answers I was getting, at least that I never felt confident that I would be able to spot the red flags in someone like my best friend's husband. But I talked to my brother the other night, and he had some really wise advice. I thought I'd bring it up here before stopping asking these questions. You all have wise advice, and I think Risa's point that you need to know yourself is very important, but I also feel that you should be able know your potential spouse too and have a way to spot areas of concern.

My brother's first comment came specifically in relation to dating a man who is a Christian. He questioned whether my best friend's husband really is a true Christian. I said I didn't know him much before they got married, but I know that they go to church together, and he is involved in things in the church. Andrew's response? Even the Ku Klux Klan goes to church! That doesn't make you a Christian! So true! He brought up the Bible verse that said that you will know a Christian by the fruit in that person's life. In other words, doing good works isn't going to save you, but if you are already a Christian, you are going to want to do good things in order to make God happy. Andrew also said that as a Christian, my best friend is a daughter of God. And what would our dad do if I were married to someone who treated me like her husband is treating her? I said, "He'd sit down and talk very calmly and quietly to him." My dad never loses his temper! Andrew laughed and agreed with me, although what other people wouldn't recognize is that sometimes being super quiet means my dad is even more upset than if he wasn't so calm and collected. So then Andrew said, "Well, then, what would I do?" I said, "You'd pick up the phone and call because you're in Brazil!" His next response was, "What if I was in the U.S.?" I didn't know, but he reminded me that he got inso some serious non-physical fights with one of my ex-boyfriends because he felt that the man was not treating me as well as he should have treated me.

His comment then was, "Imagine how an earthly father or brother would respond if his daughter or sister was being abused. Now think about how God would respond. The problem with this man (meaning my best friend's husband) is that he is not thinking about her as the daugther of God." So he isn't respecting her as the inherently valuable person whom she is. I thought that was interesting.

But Andrew's other comment would apply to someone of any faith. He said that you should look at the mentors the person has had in his or her life. Who has influenced this person to become the person that he or she is? If possible, meet these people; find out what they are like. They are likely to have been the models after which your date or whomever you want to assess has molded her or his life. I liked that point. Even just looking at the authors who are important to a person when it comes to books on life (not pleasure reading but inspirational reading or similar types of words) can give you an idea of the person's character.

So I feel a bit more confident now. And I have been watching my new boyfriend carefully to see if I can identify areas that might alert me, but so far I have not. We have so much in common in our basic beliefs, even down to politics, which is really unusual because it is hard to find someone how is generally conservative in the Christian faith to be a Democrat and in favor of gay rights! He still has a problem with homosexuality but feels that gays should be given the same rights as straights to marry and have equal lives, so he's on his way there. But that's just one area where we agree. So many evangelical Christians think that Christian means Republican; I've gotten into heated arguments with people over that one! As my brother pointed out, the early church was actually communist! Let the Christian right get their minds around that one!

Anyway, sorry for the side track. I just thought I'd write to let you know I feel more closure on this topic and to give you all the benefit of my brother's wisdom.

And as for Marc, yes, I'm only a few months younger than you are, but although I probably won't be able to handle having kids of my own, I very much do want to get married because I crave the companionship that a committed relationship brings. I know that it can bring its own set of challenges, but I want to be able to experience as much of a "normal" life as I can, and I especially long for the sense of settling down with someone who loves me and whom I love and whom I can support in whatever way possible. While I am often seen as a natural leader, I love to take on the supporting role too, which is something that I would love to be able to do in marriage. I certainly don't intend to jump straight into it. I believe in waiting a while before getting engaged. I don't know what that while should mean, but certainly longer than the two months that both my parents and my brother took before they got engaged. I believe you need longer to get to know each other properly and to make sure that you aren't overlooking things out of the excitement of the early stages of the relationship, when the glow tends to make you ignore the red flags. I'm trying to keep my eyes open as wide as possible. But I really do want to get married and have someone to love who loves me back! I'm 33, so I'm not rushing into it. My grandmother was married at 19. We have a friend in Kenya who is younger than I who is a grandmother by now! So 33 is not too young to think about marriage!
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Post  Petzi Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:05 pm

Vicky,

I don't think that somebody's religious leanings have any bearing on whether he is going to be good husband material or not. A lying, cheating, abusing and bullying bastard will be just that even if he declares himself to be holier than thou. In fact he will probably do his utmost to bend any religious teachings to suit his own purposes. It is all down to someone’s character really and character is defined by how somebody deals with life’s problems.

Test your new boyfriend. Ask him to do you a favour and see how he behaves. Is he trying to worm and wriggle out of it, is he full of excuses or is he bending over backwards to try to help you out?

How about dinner? Is he happy to pay, or is he insisting on sharing the bill? I know many will now protest, but I happen to be very old fashioned when it comes to this. If he is really into you he would rather die than make you pay for your dinner. That doesn’t mean you can’t chip in if you feel like it, but he should at least intend to pay without making a fuss.

Expose him to small kids and animals. See how he conducts himself.

Challenge him and see if he loses him temper easily. etc ........

Don’t forget: actions speak louder than a 1000 words.

P.
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Post  Annika Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:48 pm

Vicki, in 1996 the Violence against Women Act (WAVA) was passed to help prevent the situation your friend is in. She does not need to stay with him in order to get her Green Card and staying with him solely to get the Green Card could be a real problem.

Please, please tell her she does not have to live in fear of being deported if her husband is being abusive to her (physically or psychologically). She can leave him and still stay here.

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Post  Mini Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:05 am

The problem with any abusive relationship is, that this is often related to co-dependency and because of co-dependency the abused finds it difficult to leave, and therefore will think of almost any excuse why s/he cannot leave the controlling abuser.

However, if there is a small child and baby involved, such situation is quite unacceptable and a mother has a duty to protect the child first, by leaving the abuser, for the sake of that child. There are no excuses strong enough. Even Green Card means nothing, if your child's is in any danger.

We hear too frequently of terrible cases when children die because of violence in the family. Too late. We see the pictures from the post moretm.
It is all too easy to harm a small child.
The violence has a way of escalating and it often ends up with a child being harmed or even killed in a fit of anger exploding over nothing. A baby needs protection.

I agree with what Petzi said, it is not going to church that matters (many controlling men like to appear very religious) but kindness in every day things that makes a good partner.

I also agree that it is really best to be a little old fashioned during "getting to know you" stage.
For one thing is is more romantic (all the flowrs, chocolates and excitemnt what next), and therefore much more fun.
And for another thing, let's face it:
if a man cannot afford (or is unwilling) to pay for dinner when he is trying to win you over, how on earth is he going to be able to support family, and children. (I so wish, I thought of that one myself, before it was too late). I wish someone told me all that.

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Post  VickiG Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:30 am

I think you guys are a little too naive about my best friend's situation. The act that Annika mentioned is great, but my friend has no proof that she has been abused. He has never left bruises, and he has always done this in privacy. Even when I brought this up with my therapist, he agreed that she can't count on this to help her because too many people abuse this act to claim abuse when all they want is just to stay in the U.S.

And as for saying that a green card isn't what's important; it's the safety of her child. That's well and good, but which do you think is better: for her to stick with the jerk for another year and stand between him and the baby if he ever gets close to the baby (and he only once accidentally hurt the baby; it's his wife he has acted against) or give up and go back to Mongolia and let the jerk have custody of the baby for the rest of his life? As I said, she has no proof of abuse. If he asks for custody (and he has indicated that he would), then the judge is going to give the baby to him without a second thought. Just think: America or Mongolia? Where is he likely to have a better life?

So while it is very idealistic to say that she should leave her husband now to get him away from the baby, what she would be doing is setting her son up for a lifetime of abuse instead of trying to put herself between the baby and harm's way for just another year.

I've talked with my therapist, a social worker, about this issue, and he agrees with me and says that she doesn't really have any options. Earlier, I was encouraged by people at Ronda's to call child services against him, but my therapist says that without an eye witness, all they will do is ask the parents if everything is o.k. They may go as far as looking at the baby, but because he never had an marks on him, they will close the case altogether. I even asked if this could help her if she were to be pushed out of the country to be able to take the baby with her, and although he's not an attorney, he didn't see how it could help. I talked with my PCP, who has been trained to look for child abuse and deal with potential problems, and he agrees with the situation too, saying that without any signs of trauma in the baby (or on his mother, either), there's nothing that anyone could do to help her keep the baby.

It's possible that the law may require just two years from the date of marriage and not since the date of her getting her green card, in which case she just has to stick it out until June. But the case isn't as simple as people here seem to be portraying it. My friend is not the classic "abused woman" and would love to leave the jerk, but she is doing the same calculations I've written about here and doing her best to be strong for her son because she wants to ensure that his safetey is paramount.
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Post  Petzi Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:57 pm

I would grab my kid and leave. If that means leaving the US so be it. America is not the be all and end all.

If anybody was naive here it was your friend who thought it was a good idea to marry the guy and choose to ignore some pretty clear warning signs. Breaking up a couple of times and then getting hitched and having a baby so soon just screams “really bad idea”.

Who knows what this man is capable of? If someone is capable of beating up a woman he is also capable of hitting a child. Should anything happen to her child she will not be able to forgive herself. Worse still her child will not be able to forgive her either.

She has made some pretty bad choices, but now she has a chance to do the right thing and protect her child.

I hope she has the strength and determination to see this through. I wish her all the best.

P.
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Post  Mini Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:43 am

You are quite right Vicky to point out, that we might not know the full story of your friend's predicament, but sometimes beeing too close to the problems makes you loose what is really important amongst all the many consideration.
I do admire you loyalty to your friend, since one thing is certain she definitely needs a good friend right now. BUt sometimes best friend needs to be cruel to be kind - so telling uncomfortable truth to a friend can be sometimes the true act of loving kindness. I appreciate that you are in difficult position.

However, I very much doubt if your friend leaving USA with her child is as great a disaster as you seem to think, since it is far from certain that her staying will guarantee her child well being and happiness. On the contrary the facts speak otherwise:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7407245

Since as you can see USA and Britain are according to UNICEF reaserach, the last two in the list of The Worst Countries for Kids, amongs the developed nations.

I know Britain is there as well, and I do not argue, since I know how very difficult, it is to bring up children in this country from my own experince and to make sure that they are happy and well adjusted (they are BTW).
I know it would be even more difficult in your country when you cannot afford a good health insurance, or decent schooling even if you work very hard.

It might be a surprise to you, but some of the happiest places in the world acoording to much research, are also the poorest, like Bhutan, or Costa Rica. They have different values to yours of course, but just becasue they are different this does not mean that yours are automatically superior. Or, that growing up in US is the best option for this child. Perhaps not...Have you considered that?

I realise that Mongolia is quite different from the above, but it might not be as bad as it has been portrayed to you.
Maybe your friend is reluctant to go back for personal reason, which might be very valid, but now she is a mother and her priorities must be to protect her child, her needs come second.
I do know you wish her well, and you care about her Vicky, and I appreciate your difficulties, but sometimes loyalty can go too far, when such serious issues are at stake.

Returning to the subject of marriage:
Petzi made a very valid point - what was happening before these two got married, did any of you not notice "the signs" that this was not a right person to marry? Perhaps you did, but out of loyalty did not say anything. Or perhaps there were no signs, he was sweet and kind and swept her of her feet - controlling men (and conman) are often extremely nice, very obliging and helpful etc, they will do anything to draw a person in and gain control of their heart (and often mind), but once you are married, or involved the cracks beging to show.
So before you open your heart to a man, make sure that you do not shut your mind to reality of what he is like. get to know him well. Do not rush into any decision. Benefit from your friend's experience she must have seen him wonderful to marry him, or perhaps overlooked his faults tempted by a Green Card - but you do not need to rush.
There are some excellent suggestions above, and we do wish you well, Vicky. Truly!


Last edited by Mini on Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  02R96 Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:35 am

Vicky, your friend's husband is an insecure coward; a little boy who never learned self control and reason.

'nuff said.
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