stroke/aspirin/rebound

Hi Becky and Linda,

You should come to England. It's all we hear. But given this forum is predominantly Americans/Canadians, not sure why it only came to your notice since joining here??

Thanks so much for your comments. I dont happen to think I have MOH. I am not sure some of it isnt down to luck.
Metabolism/personality (in the addictive sense)

Linda your comment about the OTC really rung a bell.
So simplistic, but so true. Especially if you take into the equation what my neuro said to me on the phone last week.
"Triptans". They are a very safe medication. They have been around 20 years and nothing untoward has been reported."
So, that would suggest it is the OTC, which are the biggest apparent culprits, and freely available that we need be wary of.
So why would Triptans, which help us cut back on the OTC be restricted.....

Pen,

If you think about it, it comes down to $. Triptans aren't a cheap medication paid for by NHS and I'm guessing that you pay OTC. So the system wants to save money and restricting those expensive triptans would be one way.

HeelerLady wrote:Pen,
If you think about it, it comes down to $. Triptans aren't a cheap medication paid for by NHS and I'm guessing that you pay OTC. So the system wants to save money and restricting those expensive triptans would be one way.

The ones I use OTC are like Excedrin. They are cheap by comparison. 16 for 50p. $1 ish.
You can buy 2 Imigran from the Pharmacy For, I think abt £8. ($13 ish)
Not sure how that compares with over there, but yes, there is a big difference.

If I took all 12 migards (cost to me £8/$13 NHS cost).
If I took 30 OTC, it costs me £1/$2

Exchange may not be correct, but comparisons speak for themselves...

Well I guess we solved that mystery

Not according to the neuros, and the press but I dont hear too much coming out of the drug companies.....

Pen - I don't know how your system works over there, but here int the US, all I would have to do is go to my pharmacist and ask them
if it is OK to take them everyday and if not, why. They would be better able to give me an answer as far as safety goes.

You mean something like Excedrin Linda?
We just pick them up in the supermarket.
You cant buy more than 2 packs of 16 at a time.
Some dumb idea that this will stop people using them to commit suicide!!!!

P

Just as an addendum here.
I have, after taking loads of Triptans last month and ending on 13
Now gone 5 days without and 3 days with no medication at all.

Not fantastic, but better and shows I am not "on drugs" all the time.

P

Pen - no, I mean prescriptions. We can buy all the over the counter stuff we want. I don't buy any though because it is useless for me for migraines and migraines are my only problem (knock on wood).

Chances are if I asked the pharmacist about Triptans she would tell me what I can read on the insert with the drug.
It seems to be only the drs that know about rebound/MOH...

Pen,

If only the doctors know, then is it only their theory? Pharmacists in the states will tell a patient if there are adverse reactions and if there is a problem with using it too often. They are a wealth of knowledge here (often they know more than the doctor).

We know rebound does exist but those that have experienced it have gotten it from a pain medication, not a triptan. Folks, correct me if I'm wrong but this is an observation I've made. And different folks get it from different pain meds. I think it depends on the wiring of people.

Pen,

I know plenty of people who have rebounded from triptans.

HeelerLady wrote:Pen,

If only the doctors know, then is it only their theory? Pharmacists in the states will tell a patient if there are adverse reactions and if there is a problem with using it too often. They are a wealth of knowledge here (often they know more than the doctor).

We know rebound does exist but those that have experienced it have gotten it from a pain medication, not a triptan. Folks, correct me if I'm wrong but this is an observation I've made. And different folks get it from different pain meds. I think it depends on the wiring of people.

Do you Teri? Yes I imagine you do. You must encounter a lot of people.

Can you tell me how they know please, and why one doctor cant agree with another and cant give us proper guidelines?
If they only realised the amount of stress (our worst enemy they tell us), they cause. Perhaps they would be a bit more specific.

Should I believe the neuro I see. He tells me I do not have rebound. He stated it categorically on the phone last week.
But another neuro here would say that at 12 Triptans a month (max) that must be the case. BUT he also stated that only 2% of us have it. So what of the other 98%????
Yet another told me I definitely do not have it from OTC or Triptans. He said people go through agony getting off medication, only to find they still have the B***** headaches. He said: Clearly something else is going on, and there is more than one reason for CDH.
Three of our best neuros Teri, and they cant agree.....what hope is there for us?
Perhaps the American neuros are more consistent, but if this forum is anything to go by, they are not....

So what we all need to know is:
A: Does it really exist? Many on here do not think so, they believe it is a cop out.
B: How does one know? Really know, not some ball park....not more than so many, but what other criteria?
C: Given how quickly medication gets out of the system, how on earth can it take 2 months to "detox".

I am sure there are other questions, but I imagine there are others on here who would welcome your considered opinion from your experience. It is often the subject of debate on here. I think we would al like to know once and for all. But I am not sure that is possible.

Thanks Teri.

OK, Pen, let me see if I can answer these questions. I know I've addressed most, if not all of this before, but let me try again...

Here are your questions and some thoughts...

A: Does it really exist? Many on here do not think so, they believe it is a cop out.
Yes, it exists. I can tell you that both from the medical literature and anectodally from all the headache and Migraine sufferers I've worked with. That doesn't mean that every person who uses meds beyond the suggested limits will experience MOH, but it certainly does exist. I know of some people who haven't had MOH despite very frequent use of meds. They're in the minority, but they exist.

B: How does one know? Really know, not some ball park....not more than so many, but what other criteria?
I've written articles on this. I'm not going to try to explain it in a forum post. Far too complex, but you can find the answer in Medication Overuse Headache: When the Remedy Backires. This article was updated recently with the most current information available, including criteria.

C: Given how quickly medication gets out of the system, how on earth can it take 2 months to "detox".
Because getting medications out of our systems isn't all there is to breaking the MOH cycle. It messes with our pain receptors, and they need time to "reset."

Hope this helps.

Cheers Teri, Yes it helps.

P

BUT he also stated that only 2% of us have it. So what of the other 98%????

Just reading this forum, I would suspect that 2% is way to low.

He took it from here Lentils: Actually doesnt say 2% sorry....my mistake.
We did a poll ion here earlier this year. We came up at about the same I think.
I think Ronda pulled it because there were abusive comments on there. Shame.

BASH guidelines 2007

MOH affects 1 in 50 people
• Prophylaxis added to MOH is ineffective
• Prophylaxis may aggravate MOH
• Difficult to diagnose other headache in
presence of MOH

I must've missed that poll. Too bad, I would've liked to have seen it.
What is BASH? Do you have a link? Sorry for being a pain in the bum.

Ha! You are not being a pain. I do have a link for the British Association for the Study of Headaches. http://bash.org.uk/
BUT I think he must have gotten this from some sort of membership as I couldnt see it on there.
Maybe I just man looked.....see what you can find..

It is a pity she pulled the poll yes.
It was my poll, but I had a bit of trouble with a certain member and she went on an insult rant against me.
War broke out and the thread was pulled.
But hey, she is gone now. We could do it again....
It was a good 6 months ago....

Pen

I would take whatever it takes but check with my doctor first to make sure it is safe. I wouldn't be worried about rebound though. So
what if you have to take something every day to be pain free when without it you aren't living anyway. We aren't living forever.


_____________________

boho dresses vintage dresses
symptoms fibroid

Random data point:
I talked about that to my neuro last year. At the time, I had been taking, for me, a lot of ibuprophen (Advil). He said I was OK if I was taking 20 doses or less a month.

20 doses......is that dose as in 2x 200mg?
Mine wanted me to not take on too many days, but could have 3 doses (2x200mg) in a day....

Confusing...

P

20 doses of 200 mg. He also recommended 600 mg at a time, so that's not many treatments. However, I was getting by on 200 mg at a time.

Did you know ibuprofen works better in men? Nothing's fair ...
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=116944&page=1