Homoeopathy. Know most of us have not found help with migraine.

But what do you think of this rather savage article from our Daily Telegraph?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/alternativemedicine/7728281/Homeopathy-is-witchcraft-say-doctors.html

Sorry, but I 100% agree with all premises in the article. I am particularly astonished to find out that your government actually FUNDS homeopathy. From my perspective that makes the government look somewhat laughable. And not only that, but to the tune of £4 million a year? What a waste! They should put that money into funding pharmacological advances.

If people want to pursue homeopathy on their own, that's fine. The fact that a government backs such a thing really is laughable to me.

OK Jayme. Fair comment.
One of the reasons it has had NHS backing is that a lot of people seem to have been helped by it.
Not for migraines I doubt, but other conditions.

Also it is well known that our Queen and the royal family are keen users of Homeopathy, so I guess that gives it some credence.
As far as the NHS paying for it. They dont spend much compared to other things and they waste a huge amount on too many echelons of management and over prescribed drugs.

I will just add that I havent read the article. My PC crashed after I posted the link and then I had family stuff to attend to.
Now the link wont open.....perhaps they could spend some of the money they save on getting me a new lap top??

I agree with you, jwar. I find it all to be wishful, magical thinking.

I am a bit surprised, but then again not. I shall await some comments from this side of the pond.
I have now managed to read it. It is true the amount spent is minimal, and the success...placebo or not...has been good.
I know of two people in my family who have been helped by homoeopathy, one still is....for arthritis...
I was referred by my GP for Fibro, but never got to go....migraine....

So are you saying you agree and it is Witchcraft, or that it is not the sort of thing that our NHS should be spending on because of lack of scientific evidence to support? I ask because as a hypnotherapist, I am not sure that shows up scientifically,but the results are very good.

Just asking, not arguing???
Pen

I'm not at all against the concept of "alternative medicine". For instance, I myself benefit greatly from acupuncture and would confidently recommend it to others. Also, I think a very good argument could be made for hypnotherapy, as that is dealing with getting the brain into a specific state and that brain-state can have far-reaching implications for health and consciousness. I would agree that the entire premise of homeopathy, however, could be called "witchcraft". I would most definitely classify it as magical thinking.

The reason for this is because in homeopathy tinctures are based on dilutions. The types of dilutions that they sell in stores are so exceedingly unlikely to contain even a single molecule of the claimed active substance that in essence people are just buying small bottles of water/pills made out of sugar. The "water memory" concept of homeopathy is not physically possibly and nothing in the entire history-spanning realm of scientific inquiry and evidence has ever even minorly suggested that such a thing is even remotely possible.

Not to mention that the so called "active" substances seem to often be randomly chosen...based on what? Intuition? I equate homeopathy to picking up various sticks and leaves in my yard, deciding randomly which sticks and leaves treat what ailments, letting them sit in a cup of water for a little while, diluting that cup of water so much that even a trace molecule of the sticks and leaves are no longer present, and then calling it medicine.

Sure, there can be a placebo effect with homeopathy. Hell, there can be a placebo effect with damn near anything I'd say. But why should the government support paying for people's placebo effects? It makes the government look ridiculous and in garnering government support it denigrates the research of doctors and scientists that actually are basing treatment options on the reality of illnesses.

I don't think it is witchcraft. That is taking it a bit far in my opinion. Homeopathy over here is more of a natural remedy type of thing along with the diluted remedies. I have used homeopathy for injuries such as broken bones and have had great results. When my daughter broke her arm she was supposed to be in casts for 6-8 weeks and was out of it in three.

The herbal remedies did not work for me with migraines and fibro but Peppermint oil rubbed on the area above my eye that hurts the most during a migraine attack works wonders. I also rub it on the part of my head that hurt during TN attacks and it helps with that also. And here that is considered homeopathy, at least by the homeopaths that I have experience with.

When you think about it, many of our medications come from plants that have been used for centuries. There is usually truth behind old wives tales and folk remedies. You have to be careful and look out for charlatans, but there are plants, herbs, oils etc. that can be of use and people who are versed in how to use them properly. There is more to homeopathy than just the diluted remedies cited in the articles. They also use herbs and vitamins as part of their treatment.

To call it witchcraft is to go back a few hundred years to when the local healer was persecuted because she took business away from the male doctors and the church. To brand someone a witch was an easy way to get rid of the competition. I had hoped we had moved beyond that type of thinking.... but here we are in 2010 and some part of the medical establishment is doing it all over again. Scary.

hi there all, i read an article some months ago that was disputing the benefits of it because some of the treatments were diluted so so much that it was practically just water, and they were saying it had mainly a placebo effect, anyway if i could meet just one person whos migraines were vastly improved with homeopathy i would go for it, but up until now i havent tried it.

I haven't tried it either Theresa, but I wouldn't care if it was placebo if it got rid of the pain.
I think I will keep an open mind.....
Bit surprised to see such an article in the Telegraph....
But it is junior doctors that are shouting about this dribble of money...
They could fund it with the money wasted on Swine flu medication that went down the drain.
Or the over prescribe of anti biotics....finance is not a good enough reason in this case.
Makes me wonder what is at the root of it.

When I think about homeopathy I think about the dilutions. I understood that that was widely regarded as the definition of homeopathy (having worked in a vitamin/health food shop for a year, that's what we defined it as). I personally think of using herbs/vitamins/etc as something different than homeopathy. For instance, the capsaicin nasal spray I use for my migraines has "homeopathy" on the bottle, but that is very certainly not a dilute substance.

I think in America they classify anything sort of "natural" and unregulated as "homeopathic", but I think they do that for lack of a better term, personally. The premise of true homeopathy is the dilution/water memory crap. The difference between using homeopathy and certain herbs/vitamins is that the herbs/vitamins have actual active ingredients, a mechanism of action, etc. I absolutely agree that more research should examine and refine what the active substances in a lot of remedies are (e.g., feverfew, petadolex, etc).

I think I can understand why the junior doctors are adamantly against homeopathy in its true definition: as a scientist, I find the very idea that the concept continues to hang on downright personally offensive. I see it as evidence of a much bigger problem in population-wide critical thinking and scientific/physical knowledge. And I think a lot of people get false hopes for a cure and just get ripped off in the end.

I have no personal experience of homeopathy - so, I reserve judgemnt on this complex issue.

And I cannot say that I have much trust in "junior doctors" either.
Over a lifetime of dealing with that profession, I have become much less trusting of their judgment, then I once was. So frankly I am not impressed by their call, either.
They can hardly be called "scientists".

They are medical practioners, or they will be, once they gain enough experience. Being a doctor does not make you scientist unless you go into academic research and therefore such "calls" are mostly about internal medical politics, often nothing to do with science or common sense.

"I think a lot of people get false hopes for a cure and just get ripped off in the end". This might be the case in USA, of course. But at least here in UK this is not the case, since we can get homeopathic treatment free on NHS, so no one is being ripped of if they wish to try this form of treatment.

Since homeopatic hospital is next to Neurological Hospital (in fact the buldings are joined) and Great Ormond Street Hospital, I often stop at their little cafe/restaurant as they serve delicious freshly made inexpensive food and they have excellent coffee. Highly recommended!

Senna

I don't know exactly what junior doctors would translate to in America, but I whole-heartedly agree that even full medical doctors are very far from scientists! In my doctoral program we have a lot of MD-PhD dual candidates. All of the PhDs consider these people sort of "special". They are almost always the ones asking "odd" illogical questions in class and also the ones that fail the PhD qualifying exams.

Anyway, you might not think you're <i>directly</i> being ripped off by the homeopathy trend, but I am assuming the NHS is funded by tax payer money, i.e., you. It's also ripping you off because the money could be going into funding many other possibilities for creating and implementing health care that could translate more directly into improvements for you and other people in your country.

There is no provable science behind homeopathy. But all too often it gets mixed up with natural medicine, herbal medicine and many other alternative health practices.

In Florida, James Randi has offered $1,000,000 to anyone that can prove with scientific process that it works. For several years now nobody has come forth to challenge him. And they won't because the science is just not there.

And what I am starting to see now is combining herbal extracts with the 2x and 4x homeopathic dilutions. That way if it works the person will say homeopathy works when it was the herbal extract.

But the good news is it's safe and cheap so you are not risking anything by trying it. If the placebo effect works then keep using it.

Interesting comments, thanks.
So what about the type of homeopathy i mentioned on here a few weeks ago.
Clinical Homeopathy.....uses dilute pathogens to supposedly defeat the ones lingering inside us that cause so many of the
"non medical" illnesses, like Fibro and IBS....

Would you say there is any difference?
The remedies are different, sometimes the diagnostics are different, but it is still called homeopathy.
Not sure if it falls in with the same "Witchcraft" accusation....which I find really OTT.
As my daughter commented, "can it not just be not bad/not for everyone/waste of money even" but Witchcraft...bit strong in this day and age....

Have to say, most of the jnr doctors I know.... personally are pretty good at the science of alcohol....lot of parties....but then they work very long hours, so I guess they make the most of their spare time. Would I trust their judgement... probably not.

But at least here in UK this is not the case, since we can get homeopathic treatment free on NHS, so no one is being ripped of if they wish to try this form of treatment.

How can you be so ekhm,. . blind - just because you don't pay from your own pocket doesn't mean you are not being ripped off.

Risa

I have 80mg Oxycotins for sale 20$ a piece buy more than 20 get them for 10$ a piece I do fast overnight and reliable shipping if interested contact me at mikemeds1@gmail.com

I have to ask.....as a Brit so therefore not used to buying drugs...
Is that $20.....as in Twenty Dollars.....a tablet...
Surely that should read 20 cents...right??
It cant be......I think I just slipped through the language barrier....didnt I??

I think you read right it's expensive
however dealing Rx drugs is illegal here

but I am laughing because there is a cop migraineur on this site
surely that person will be interested hahaha

Risa

It would be better if there was a differentiation between natural remedies and homeopathy in the literal sense of the word. Then maybe the true would be separated from the fiction. I do have to agree that the homeopathy that is defined as the dilute treatments is much more likely to be a placebo effect rather than a true remedy. For the sake of this discussion, I concede that homeopathy as defined should not be funded by the government but to call it witchcraft is taking it too far. Call it wishful thinking.

Using pathogens on the other hand is different as that is a virus or bacteria that is acting as the antagonist. I don't know if that works in extremely dilute conditions or not. I wonder if would work the same as a vaccine? I think we would have heard people shouting from the rooftops if this was true though. So I reserve judgement.

dear dear... As bad as I can get, buying drugs from some guy off the internet is the height of stupidity as is dealing them so blatantly.

wait a minute.. how's that the replies to the other thread end up here?

Risa

So it is 20 dollars...that is ridiculous. The actual price of Imigran here 20 years ago was £20.
But since the patent ran out....now they are 2 for £8 I think from the pharmacy.
Still a lot, but nothing like this price.

We have a cop Risa....wow I didnt know that...Who?....I better shape up....

Alli I am discussing this now on the group. Yes it is supposedly a dilute of the pathogen....indeed like vaccination I thought.
But when I posed the question there, the thought was that there is no lowered immune system to need to be "saved".

Homeopathy in UK is a separate thing. to other "complimentary/Alternative remedies.
This page explains the premise fairly well, but in brief it is the dilute tinctures yes.

http://www.skeptics.org.uk/homeopathy.php

So, the premise is that you are infected with some pathogen that is causing your body distress, which can manifest as migraines/fibromyalgia/other disorders. The therapeutic choice in order to combat this pathogen is to ingest a dilute solution of even more pathogen so that your body will learn how to fight it. Here's the thing: if you really were infected with a pathogen, it would already be at much higher blood concentrations than it would be if you ingested a dilute solution of the pathogen (assuming of course that even a single pathogen is in this dilute solution). So if your immune system was indeed capable of recognizing and fighting off the pathogen, it would have already engaged. There is no reason to believe that by supplying even more of the pathogen that your body will suddenly start fighting it, when your body was not fighting it despite its presence to begin with. It's just really illogical, and I can't imagine how it could possibly work.

As an additional perspective: I personally would NEVER willingly ingest pathogens unless they were scientifically validated as being deactivated - you realize of course that this would then be the equivalent taking a vaccine, which is something that needs to be developed in a controlled laboratory setting. But I am absolutely willing to bet that if there were doctors in England actually feeding people dilute solutions of active pathogens - as this guy is claiming he will do for you - that the government would shut such an operation down stat. I mean the implications of such a therapy on a population-based scale are mind-boggling.

That's really interesting Jayme thanks very much. I can tell you I have done a free consultation with this fella because I want to find out what he is about. He used VEGA testing and proclaimed that for my migraines alone, this is what he found:
Meningitis
Paladium-Silver
Hepatitis G
Zahnsacken (Tooth Abscess)

BTW I dont have a tooth abscess, but did have one about 35 years ago.
So the treatment involves the remedies and also something called Drainages, which I didnt fully understand, but they are to stop the remedies moving through the body too quickly...or something like.

So this cures migraines, and then for my IBS and Fibro we would need more remedies....
All would add up to a lot of money and I imagine for nothing,but much success and testimonials especially for IBS on his web site.

Now unlike you, I have no idea of the science behind all this, but people are doing it. I hope they are not putting themselves at risk in some way.