better to be nice or a witch? Serious opinions wanted

This is totally off topic but I am wondering how to handle a few situations but have not done much yet because I am wondering what approach to take. I was brought up to believe that you catch more flies with honey (or however the saying goes). I am the type person that tries to always be nice even when people do not deserve it. Even if someone is hurtful or mean to me, I turn the other cheek and continue to be nice.

BUT recently I am starting to see that with some people being nice does not seem to work. Not only that but there are some people I know that appear to be downright NASTY people and yet they seem to be more loved and respected than some AWESOME NICE people.

So I am wondering what you all think? Should I continue to be a nice person and always handle things tactfully when there is conflict? Or might it be time to be a big B (witch) at times?

One issue in particular is confusing me as to how to handle it. I won't say a lot out of respect for my 4 year old but basically her daddy finally decided (a couple months ago) to be in her life. He is remarried and has another child. Anyway my sweetie getting to know her daddy has been a little rough. So much so, she has needed some counseling. So the counselor said she needs quite some time until she is ready to get to know his whole family (new wife, ect). This is nothing personal against the wife just has to do with all our daughter is going through.

So basically my ex gets to visit her but not with his wife. So I was trying to be really nice to his wife. But then she blasted me for not having met my daughter yet even though the therapist said she is not ready and she will let us know when she is. I also got more than one opinion so I felt confident this is the right approach. So I kindly explained it is nothign person but the reasons for waiting are.....as set forth by her therapist. I mean, afterall, I am paying the therapist good money and they aren't pitching in. What would the point be of me sending her if I wasn't going to listen to anything the professional said.

What happened was my ex's wife decided to show up to one of the visits anyway. And it really shook up my daughter. Just as the therapist had warned. I tried to be nice about it. I wanted to go off on my ex and his wife but did not. I waited until a later time and tactfully told them I am sure they did not purposely go against the therapist knowing it could be hurtful to our daughter. I said I was sure it was a mistake. And the tone on this might sound as if I said it saracastically or something but I did not.

His wife never replied (this was done via email so that they coudln't say I said anything I didn't,ect). My ex never replied either. I didn't expect them to apologize to me but to my daughter (yes)/ See my ex had promised my daughter a special day with him (just him) and so she felt really betrayed.

Anyway, I want to let them know this is not OK and not to pull any "stunts" again. But I am not sure if I should once again be sweet or if I should be a little nasty so that they know I mean business.
Kris

Kris,

My vote is nasty. This is YOUR child that you have to do damage control with and you want only the best for her. If your ex's new wife doesn't get this, there's going to be further problems (she obviously sees this as being about her not your daughter). I guess how I would put it is that I'm sure this once was an accident and will not happen again as they are not allowed to take her alone - you need to be present.

Your ex needs to understand that your child is not ready for this and needs to put the needs of his child before that of his current wife. If he doesn't get that, then you may want to reconsider having him in your child's life.

I come from another view point. I was older when my parents divorced and my dad's girlfriend wanted nothing to do with his kids. While my brother was a minor, my mom had to deal with my dad and unfortunately the Cow was listening and was interfering. She got in the middle of things that should have been between our parents. Caused a lot of grief and I haven't spoken to my dad in 6 years because he chose her over us.

Momma Bear should do everything in her power to protect Baby Bear and if it calls for being a biotch then so be it. Just my 2 cents and take it for what it's worth.

Becky

I say get nasty. You've tried nice and it didn't work. This is your daughter and her welfare comes before any adult. If the second wife can't understand that then she is a bit immature and it makes me wonder about her parenting skills.

Change can be hard for young children and this woman needs to get her priorities straight. She may be threatened by the whole situation in which case she needs counselling too so she can learn how to integrate the families without upsetting a 4 year old.

But to upset your daughter who is just getting used to the idea of having a Daddy who cares about her is just not acceptable. Pull out the Mama Bear in you and let them know that following the counselor's advice is what is going to work for both families in the long run and that is all there is to be said.

If they don't want to follow the professional's advice, let them take you to court and the court will do exactly what you are already doing. I don't think you would even need to get a lawyer as your counselor would be able to provide you with letters stating why you've taken the steps you have.

Alli beat me to it. You probably don't need to be nasty, just really clear and firm. Like a rock. You are right and you know it and they know they're in the wrong as well.

Just as the therapist had warned. I tried to be nice about it. I wanted to go off on my ex and his wife but did not.

Kris,
I don't mean to put you down but if your child is getting emotionally damaged to the point she needs counseling,
and if the counselor has clearly stated it is NOT recommended that your child should see the wife
why then you'd rather let the wife win than protect your child- didn't you write this yourself:

What happened was my ex's wife decided to show up to one of the visits anyway. And it really shook up my daughter. Just as the therapist had warned.

I am so sorry but I have to ask you this- why would you let an innocent helpless child suffer, why are you even needing to ask what should you do?

Honey, don't be afraid to simply stand up for yourself and your kids - at this point I'm afraid it is even outright dangerous game for your children emotionally.
Forgive me for speaking out loud the truth, I don't mean to be mean I just deeply care about you - you need to grow a pair!


Risa

Risa,
I don't think I totally understand what you are saying. The only reason I did not create a scene then and there was it seemed it would make a bad situation even worse for my daughter. I'm not sure if I made the right decision but when I sized up the situation it seemed like it was better not to create a big uproar at the time. As for asking if I should continue to be nice or get nasty, I didn't mean being nice as in letting them do what they want. I meant his wife still doesn't seem to get it. So I am wondering if I should continue to kindly set her straight or if I shoudl go with my gut and say something like, "look lady your selfish, immature actions ahve made things worse for my innocent daughter and I will kick your a** if it happens again." Ok so I would probably find a more mature way to say that but I think you guys get th e point.

The part about her already getting therapy might not have come out right. She gets along ok with her dad but is having a rough time with the adjustment. The minute I realized it was causing her any confusion, I spoke with her pediatrician and we determined that therapy (preferably unfication therapy) would be best to avoid further struggles for her.
Alli,

Yes, my attorney already told me that given the circumstances (father never involved before, absent for 4 years), that I could easily get therapy court ordered if my ex didn't cooperate with her getting therapy.

I think you were right to not have a bust up in front of the child. Apart from the upset it would cause to her, if there are ever problems in the future there's the chance it could be used to say you took the first chance you had to show them up in front of your daughter.

I think it's the father who needs to be tackled. Whether the wife gets it or not is his problem and he needs to make her understand. He needs to know that he will not be able to see his daughter if he cannot abide by the agreed arrangement and next time the contact will be ended. Perhaps a letter from your attorney would be best. Clear and to the point. I'm in the UK so things might be different but that's my experience of how things get done here.

I think that you did the right thing by being tactful, especially in front of your child. But, I do think that it is time to be FIRM and clear about what can and cannot happen on these visits. Once is a mistake.(or you could let it be one). But twice is unacceptable. I agree that a letter that they have to sign for and maybe that is notarized or from the court may be firm enough. I do think that you don't want to have an adversarial relationship with the man and his new wife if they are going to be involved in your daughters life. If it starts out that way now, it will just make it harder for her in the future. Maybe you could take the woman to coffee and set your expectations? Reassure her that you do not dislike her or that you aren't going to keep the child from her and the family forever. But that as a mother you are doing EXACTLY what the therapist says and what you know as a mother is best for YOUR child. I also agree that you need to be clear with the ex that that was ridiculous, hurtful and emotionally damaging to his daughter and that you won't stand for it.

I think that there is a way to be firm and stand up for your child without being a big witch and causing further friction with a family that is always going to be a part of your life and a big part of your daughter's life.

You are her mom, her protector. You can stand up for her!!

good luck and let us know how it works out.

Mary Anne

Kim, forgive me if I am wrong but from your first post it sounded rather like the situation is much more advanced than you make it sound in your other post?

Not knowing the whole story I agree that perhaps it was better or wiser not to cause a scene
once the wife showed up unannounced but, still I have general impression that what you lack is assertiveness not the choice of relaying information.

I support what MaryAnn and Johnfd had wrote, 100%.

Now, since you clearly stated that you asked whether or not to be a "honey" or a bwitch" I'd say perhaps not necessarily outright B4hit since bad aggressive language can be used against you in such situations
but perhaps something strong and non-disputable like maybe
"it's out of my hands - as recommended by the therapist, there will be no arguments or discussion as per rules of visitations - NO WIFE present, PERIOD!" ???


Remember, you don't care about this woman nor her feelings- what you care is your child, your family, YOU.
The wife must simply obey what is recommended by professionals what is beneficial for the child,
and ultimately, EVERYONE.

How she deals with it is her problem, not yours. she doesn't like it?? well, boo-hoo.

Also this is very good advice to have a husband personally deal with the wife- because this is very close a situation to that of in-laws.
It's his monkey on the back, the wife, between him and his child to be dealt with.
You and him and your child, you are separate from the wife.

Risa

I have an ex who has been in and out of my childrens lives over the years so I think I understand a little bit of how you are feeling.

In my opinion, he either respects what the therapist says or else.

I can assure you that a judge will certainly tell him that.

I applaud you for keeping your cool in front of your child.

You absolutely did the right thing there.

It might have upset her even more and she isn't able to understand completely what the situation entails at her age.

I don't think you have to be a B about things, just be matter of fact because let's face it, you are the one who has been raising this child all this time, not him.

It's your way (the best for your child) or the highway in my opinion.

Once he knows you mean business, hopefully he will do the right thing, if not, the courts will force him to.

It's such a difficult situation and I really feel for you.

You will do the right thing though, I am sure of that.

Take care,

Cindy

Chris,
I'd be absolutely WITCH but not in a direct or aggressive way.
Use your legal rights as mother.
I don't know much about US rules and laws as I'm from Europe, but I'm sure that you can file a lawsuit or something similar and call the authorities in cases like yours. A mother is always well protected and has many rights.

I think that your daughter expects that you protect her, so taking official actions against stubborn folks who can't understand what's wrong for a sweet kid is the least that you can do for her.

Take care
Hugs

Risa,

No, I don't think the situation is more advanced than you were thinking from my original post. When I said my daughter gets along with her dad ok, I meant she isn't scared of him, doesn't cry, ect. But she is just not really seeming to want to bond with him very well. All visits with him are supervised by either myself or my mom (My child's grandmother). She is very shy around him in the beginning and then again at the end of the visits. But she will play with him and go off with him a little by herself as long as I (or my mom) are still close by. I mean like if we go to a park for the visit or something. She doesn't run up and give him hugs or anything of that nature when he comes to visit her but she does get along with him alright ina fun setting (such as the park).

Everyone,

I think my asking to be nice or a witch might not have totally come out right. I was joking when I asked if I should tell her that if she does something detrimental again that I will kick her butt. I was just trying to figure out if being tactful is the way to continue or if I should just be more assertive. For instance, I kindly said I was sure they just made a mistake. Perhaps I should have said, you made a decision that was not in the best interests of my child and it cannot happen again.

Cindy*W wrote:I have an ex who has been in and out of my childrens lives over the years so I think I understand a little bit of how you are feeling.

In my opinion, he either respects what the therapist says or else.

I can assure you that a judge will certainly tell him that.

I applaud you for keeping your cool in front of your child.

You absolutely did the right thing there.

It might have upset her even more and she isn't able to understand completely what the situation entails at her age.

I don't think you have to be a B about things, just be matter of fact because let's face it, you are the one who has been raising this child all this time, not him.

It's your way (the best for your child) or the highway in my opinion.

Once he knows you mean business, hopefully he will do the right thing, if not, the courts will force him to.

It's such a difficult situation and I really feel for you.

You will do the right thing though, I am sure of that.

Take care,

Cindy

I agree 100% with Cindy here. I would add to that a very simple and non emotional email to them so it is in writing should this come to court. ---You are making efforts for a smooth transaction for the daughter to be in the father's life. It is important that the daughter is in the father's life and includes the new step mother and you are under the guidance of a therapist. Under recommendation, you have requested that the step mother stay away for the first few visits and this has been purposefully broken and if this happens again, you will seek legal action. SLAM. Show this witch that you will NOT be walked on. This may be enough.

You are a wonderful person and mother and you need to show your dominance that YOU are the lead here and not her. She needs to show you respect and smack her if she doesn't. It doesn't make you a biatch at all. It shows your place in life. One of respect that you deserve.

I would not go have tea with her, she lost that chance when she showed up against your wishes. Reconciliation can come later after she has showed you some respect. Besides, I think she will only use your kindness against you as she already has.

Be nice, but be firm. Smile and say NO.

My two cents.

Angela

I agree. I was always the "nice" person that got walked on verbaly and the jerks seem to get more respect. I don`t let people verbaly walk all over me like I use to but sometimes I get blind sided by them and it happens so fast that I don`t always have time to react.

My opinion is that you can`t always be nice. It doesn`t work for people who are very self-centered.

Anyway my sweetie getting to know her daddy has been a little rough. So much so, she has needed some counseling.

Kim, first of all I realize now perhaps I came on you like a ton of bricks, and I didn't mean that - all I wanted was to
give you e a little rattle into realization that in all this the wife is unimportant, you and your child is.
I apologize if I did it the wrong way. Like they say the hell is paved...

Second , in my defense this quote and some other things you wrote made me think the situation is much, much more serious and that is why I took it the way I took it.
I am nowhere perfect mother and make a lot mistakes myself so please don't think I tried to be "holier than thou".

I hope with this cleared and out of the way, and again with my apologies I hope you won't mind me telling you what other things occurred to me since yesterday.
Well since I love to watch court TV and have seen quite a few custody battles in there, I thought you never know what may happen, so perhaps it would be wise to keep a paper record of everything you say to your ex and his wife and anybody that involve your child (children)
and make sure while you are adamant that suggested protocols are obeyed, and decisive in your demands at the same time do avoid doing/saying anything that can be considered "bad behavior". (not that you would say or behave badly, of course).

This way, if anything (God forbid) happens you'll have crystal clear proof of your spotless record and solid black on white proof that you did everything that was required of you to properly raise and protect your children.

I am mentioning this only because after some musing I feel like this wife can be - not necessarily, but who knows, right, so better safe than sorry - a pain in the.. one day. She has a making of a troublemaker, hmm. I hope not.

So better if one is prepared and have for example an sent email or two stating clearly, politely the nature of rules of visitation. Printed, saved, perhaps even signed by a witness - preferrably such thing never needed, but...... again, better safe than sorry.

Risa

hi there have come into this a bit late, sorry to hear you are havin trouble, i hope it all works out in the end, its gut wrenching when there is children involved.

in my experience of nice and nasty i always start off nice, and see how it goes from there, but i have 'firm but fair', and then 'nasty' stood just behind waiting to make an apperance,

nasty people are not well liked, its just that many of us dont have the courage, or the interest in that person to set them straight and so they go through life being nasty to get their own way, but in their absence people will confess that they dont like them much but just go along with it for an easy life,

i am a firm believer in 'you reap what you sow'

and hubby always says, they want to go careful otherwise 'it will come back to bite them in the ass',
and eventually it always does.

Hi Risa,

Actually, I have already started keeping a record of things, just in case. I never really talk formally (in person) to my ex about anything. The reason I do everything through email is so that I can have a copy of exactly what I said.

I think my original question might not have come out so right. I had no intention of being a downright witch to my ex or his wife as that could backfire. I really was joking around about saying maybe i should tell her if she does anything again that could hurt my daughter, I will kick her a**.

I guess I was just more or less trying to decide if I should be super sweet to here again and again try to reassure her that it is nothing person or if I should be a little more assertive at this point. I decided that I should be a little more assertive should there be an incident again.

I don't doubt for a minute that his wife has the making of a troublemaker. Not rying to be smart just going by the things she said in her email.

Kris

I think you are doing just fine and should stay nice, "but firm" as someone else said. I admire you for keeping your calm. And it does go a long way in the long run. This new wife seems immature. Maybe you could suggest the therapist have a talk with her (so it is coming from someone else other than you).

I never really talk formally (in person) to my ex about anything. The reason I do everything through email is so that I can have a copy of exactly what I said.

I think you would get two thumbs up from Judge Judy herself, hands down. She's my idol
Maybe have a copy of 'him', too.

Also, I agree being 'soft nice' can mislead people into thinking one is a wimp, and nobody would like that.

So, yeah, let's simply keep in front of the mind what truly matters and stand up for that, and let's not bother ourselves with what matter less- like, in this case, a 'confused' feelings of "the Wife".
Deliver 'the goods' as straight and clear as possible without undue nicety. You don't need to be nice. Just civil.
Is she nice to you? I don't think so. So - why should you be?

Risa