Constant fatigue

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Constant fatigue

Post  Mini on Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:14 pm

I wonder how many other migraneurs suffer from feeling constantly tired. I feel tired even on days, when we do not have a headache.
I have such low energy levels all the time.

It seems to me that feeling of exhaustion is almost part of living with this condition.
Or perhaps I am the only one?
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Fatigue

Post  pilot57 on Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:38 pm

You are not the only one. I have fatigue most of the time that is debilitating. It's so hard to kick myself up or out to get things done.

I have chronic daily migraines, and I find that when my pain is worse that my fatigue is worse (logical I suppose).

I have been walking, and that does seem to help although sometimes getting out the door is the hardest part.

The best to you.

Ann

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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  mxgo on Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:50 pm

Me too.
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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  tortoisegirl on Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:13 pm

Yes! I also have fibro through. Conditions like headaches/migraines, fibro, chronic fatigue syndrome, IBS, interstitial cystitis, etc, can all go together....you may want to at least check the chronic fatigue syndrome diagnosis out, if not fibro. Chronic pain on its own, especially head pain, can definitely cause the fatigue though...it interrupts our concentration, sleep, etc.

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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  Migrainegirl on Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:32 pm

I did have this problem a lot until I went on the natural progesterone, magnesium and vitamin D. Surprisingly most of the fatigue as well as neck and shoulder pain disappeared as well as helping the headaches.
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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  Mini on Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:08 am

This is very interesting, I am on Vit D all the time, since I do not go out much.
I was told this was going tol help me with fatigue, but I have been on it for well over a year and I have not noticed much difference. I also take magnesium.

I sooo agree that pain is terribly tiring, I feel tensing up when I hurt. Lately I have more body pain then head pain, and I think this is draining me just as much.
I hate taking painkillers for it, since I worry about re-bounds but my GP said this should be fine - I am still relluctant. I also know that I am very sensitve to all side effects from any medicines.

I agree that many such condition go together. Sometimes I think migraine is only part of it.

Yes, Ann it is a great effort to get going, specially in the mornings when I am aching all over. It is such a battle, even getting ready to do something nice is a great effort.
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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  lissy on Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:28 am

Absolutely - I feel shattered even when I get a good nights sleep (which doesn't happen all that often). Weekends are the worst - sometimes I just can't do anything. I drag myself out of bed and to work most days and come the weekend, I don't have the stamina anymore. The last week has been particularly bad. Pain is so debilitating - it effects everything. Thankfully I've been in a slightly more positive mood the last week though despite the tiredness. My Doctor thinks I have Fibro and Adrenal Fatigue as well which goes along with the migraines etc. Waiting on some hormone tests to confirm the Adrenal Fatigue though.

Yes exercise does help if you can drag yourself into it. I attend a body balance class 3 times a week and I really don't think I'd get through the week without it. As hard as it is to get there its an hour where I manage to let the pain and exhaustion go and concentrate on something else. Mediation at the end is the best bit!

Take care everyone,
Lissy.
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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  Migrainegirl on Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:33 pm

This is very interesting, I am on Vit D all the time, since I do not go out much.
I was told this was going tol help me with fatigue, but I have been on it for well over a year and I have not noticed much difference. I also take magnesium.

Yes I was on magnesium and vitamin B for about six months also with no effect. I think the natural progesterone is the key. The others have an amplifying effect.
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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  Mini on Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:53 pm

Thank you all for your feedback, can you please explain more about natural progesterone Migrainegirl?. Is it some natural addtive? I agree that fibro, especially in winter can be a problem. What is the best way to deal with fibro. Any ideas? I really hate taking any painkillers in case it affects my head.

I agree Lissy that excercise does help a little, but it works for me mainly just as a distraction, the same like I am out with friends or family I forget about tiredness and run on adrenaline, but pay for it later. and next day I am drained and twice as tired. I find the more I rest, the better I feel. I sleep quite soundly, but I do not feel rested in the morning either.
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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  sailingmuffin on Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:21 pm

Hi All,

Yes. I have chronic intractable migraine/NDPH. Fatigue is now made worse by a NCS/POTS- constant fainting- that I have had for 2 years, vs the 13 I have had the headaches.

I always tired easily- examples- I was always the first one to sleep at slumber parties and it would wear me out for the entire weekend.

Pain is exhausting. Caffeine actually helps. So does excercise.

Pain free days,
sailingm
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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  Enigma on Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:45 pm

Just this weekend I was asked if I could take my grandchild overnight on Saturday nights so the mother could work. This would be a huge help to her and under normal circumstances I would say yes.

I feel like a real useless dud that I had to turn her down because I am just too exhausted and in pain on the weekends to do so. I had to admit that my weekends are when I have to regenerate so I could manage my stressful week at work to come. If I didn't get extra sleep then I would be sunk. I had to tell her that I was sicker than I let on.

Whether she beleives me or not, I don't know. I love my grandchild and I would love to spend more time with him, but I can't.

The whole things makes me so angry all over again at this disease.
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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  Migrainegirl on Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:15 pm

Thank you all for your feedback, can you please explain more about natural progesterone Migrainegirl?

This approach is promoted by Dr Andrew Jones. The natural progesterone is in a pill form. The idea is based on the fact that many women get relief from migraines when they are pregnant and their progesterone levels go up. He believes that what is messing up so many women is (a) birth controll pills and hormone replacement pills which both use artificial hormones made in horse urine which messes up our bodies, and (b) all the xeno estrogens in the food supply these days. So the imbalance between estrogen levels and declining progesterone levels leads to migraines in suseptible people. Many women begin having trouble with migraines in their teens or early twenties, or later when they are peri-menopausal and hormone levels get messed up (which was the case with me.)

Dr Jones advocates natural progesterone supplements. He claims an 80% success rate with this approach. He adds magnesium, vitamin D and iodine supplements which apparently augment the effect of the progesterone.

I started this plan last April. My headaches went from pretty much every day to about 2 per month. So not a total cure, but still way way better from how my life had been for 3 years preceding. Additionally most of the fatigue and chronic neck and shoulder pain
is gone. If you have not tried this approach, I recommend looking into it.

More info can be found at the following links:

http://www.migraine-headaches-information.com/

http://www.omega-1000.com/
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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  charmed quark on Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:02 am

Maybe someone can help me understand my fatigue problem.

I generally wake up feeling energetic and rested if I'm not having spasms and stuff during the night. Most of the time my day starts out great. I get a lot done in the morning.

But by noon I'm running out of energy and I start feeling strong fatigue, both muscle and brain. I generally spend the rest of the day just trying to keep going. It starts being a chore just to walk around. It helps if I can rest or even nap, then I get a second wind. But this is seldom possible at work.

Anybody else have this pattern? Is this a type of chronic fatigue? Or just getting old :-)

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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  dcook60 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:39 am

fatigue has been with me every day of my life for seventy one years. except maybe when i was under a year old. it doesn't 'compute' with me to say one feels rested; i have never ever felt like this.

but my life has been full of activity and adventures, and five children. now grandchildren. i have NEVER had the energy to do what i've done, or what had to be done, but somehow i managed to do it anyway, and then had to take naps, or crash at 8 pm with the kids.

fibromyalgia (fibrositis in the u.k.) must have been with me early on. i was diagnosed with that 20 years ago, so it explains a lot. i do not have chronic fatigue syndrome, because that is supposed to come on suddenly, with a precitipating event or illness. that's not my case.

i do believe that the entire package of our migraining bodies have differences than other people. like the people (oooooh, i'm so jealous!) who sleep 4 hours a night. i have wasted too many hours in bed, yet that's my reality and i have long ago accepted it. still glad to be able to get out and do things, and work. even if always exhausted. dianne
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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  amy on Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:21 pm

what a timely discussion! I have been more fatigued then ever lately and that's saying something! I have chronic migraine and some days are worse than others but I am so run down by the grind of pain, pills, more pain, more pills.

I'm scheduled for my first botox in 2 weeks. Hoping that will provide some relief. Also trying pilates 3x a week but it just makes me more tired; however, I feel like I need to do something!

I am going to look into the progesterone thing. Like most on this forum, I'll try just about anything!
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So many of us? Wow!

Post  Mini on Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:05 pm

CQuark, funny, I use to have this pattern, when I had few reasonably good hours in the morning then suddenly feel totally drained of all energy, totally collapsing and not able to recover for the rest of the day.

But now it is the other way round - I feel worse in the morning, also in worst pain, I ache all over. I have to push myself out of bed, or to wash, make any breakfast, I have no appetite at all most of the day, but gradually I get to function somehow and feel better in the afternoon.
I have also noticed that on rainy days I feel so much worse (I mean indoors) and during the winter worse then im summer.

Enigma, I really feel for you - last year I was in exactly the same situation like you, and I had to say No, since I knew I was not fit enough to look after a small child. It was the most painful decision ,since I so much wanted to help, I also wanted to be with my grandchild, but I knew it was not going to work for anyone.
You need to be quite strong and ready for any emergency when taking care of small children, and I knew I am not. It was hard to admit this to myself as well. But I had to face reality.

I feel tired even when I do not have any headache or other pain. I think my body is tired from fighting t pain over the years.

But I agree Diana that despite all this, it is possible to have a great life and family and wonderful freindships, only it is much, much harder and we must choose our freinds carefully to make sure that they are not only "fair weather sailors".

About porgesterone thank you for the information MG, I will need to speak to my GP about it, as I am now on a very carefully planned medicines and I am not sure what is compatible, and what is not.
Thank you everybody for you fascianting feedback everybody - I find it amazing that so many of us have the same problem with fatigue.
Although it sort of makes sense, since I know how tiring migraine is and I should not be surprised.
But I know that what we are talkingk about is something more, then the usual tiredness.

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Migraines/Progesterone/Chronic Fatigue

Post  drahaskell on Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:02 pm

Hi Everyone...
Even though thyroid issues are my focus I thought I'd bring another perspective.
The reason why progesterone taken orally works so well and why P cream doesn't is because then it's swallowed most of it immediately turns into another hormone produced by the body called Hydroxyprogesterone which has a very relaxing effect upon the body, especially the blood vessels and nervous system. This is one reason why it works well for migraines and other types of headaches.

As far as chronic fatigue... any time someone experiences chronic stress, chronic pain and chronic infections there will be a lot of changes going on in the body to cope and deal with it. One coping mechanism, since all these are strains and stresses, is that the body will, in the beginning, produce a hormone called cortisol, made by the adrenals. It is our natural anti-inflammatory and to some extent helps to increase endorphins and to reduce pain.

Yet after awhile the adrenals are not able to produce optimal levels of cortisol so our pain and our inflammation and our ability to cope declines. So anything we can do to improve our adrenal's ability to produce cortisol will help.

Sleep and relaxation are the most important. Diet is second.

The adrenals require cholesterol to make cortisol.

Every time our blood sugar drops it stresses our adrenals. If it were not for our adrenals we would experience hypoglycemia and eventually go into a comma. The adrenal hormones help to convert fat (glycogen) into glucose which prevents us from going into hypoglycemia.

Sometimes people's adrenals are so exhausted that they may not be able to recover fully and never be able to produce optimal levels of cortisol. In this case I suggest reading 'The Safe Uses of Cortisol' by Dr. William Jefferies, M.D. an incredible book that reviews 50 years of his clinical research and the use of cortisol. Anyone who thinks that all forms of cortisol (hydrocortisone) are dangerous run the other way... they have no idea what they are speaking about.

There are ways to administer low doses (physiologic not pharmacologic) to help people to recover from all kinds of chronic problems including fatigue, infertility, Hashimotos, hypothyroidism, chronic infections, etc. etc.

I hope I have added some new information that will help others in this forum.

Dr. Alexander Haskell

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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  Mini on Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:05 am

Much of what you say makes sense Dr Haskell. I always suspected that fatigue and migraine have some connection with chronic imflammatory process within our bodies.

But can you please explain more about:
There are ways to administer low doses (physiologic not pharmacologic)

How exactly you administer the low doses of corticosterod in "physiologic" way.Thank you
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Re: Physiological vs pharmacological Cortisol

Post  drahaskell on Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:18 am

Hi...
Just to clarify, physiological doses of cortisol is giving just enough to make up for what the adrenals are not able to make in optimal levels. A few references point to the adrenal's ability to make about 40mg of cortisol per day, of course depending upon a number of factors.

By running a saliva test to measure cortisol you can tell whether a person is making too much, too little or juuust right..

A physiological dose would be just enough cortisol to make the adjustment when a person isn't making enough. This is approached in a couple of ways.

There are some products made from the adrenal gland of cows that the mfg has kept cortisol in these tissues. My favorite is from Biotics Research (Cytozyme AD) and another is Iso-Cort from Bezwecken though I've found their amount of cortisol is rather inconsistent. So each tablet contains about 2.5mg of Cortisol.

The other avenue is to get a prescription for what's called USP (US Pharmacopea) Hydrocortisone.... this is nothing like Prednisone or Dexamethazone which are far toooooo high in mgs of cortisol. The USP is the original and docs never use it unless they understand the physiological dose and have read Dr. Jefferies' book.

The typical dose of cortisol is around 5mg 3-4 times daily for about 2 weeks and then to consider increasing to 7.5mg. I have seen remarkable changes in people's health and sometimes being able to reduce it completely but this does depend upon whether they are getting plenty of rest, eating properly, trying to reduce their stress and other things.

Hope this helps....
Dr Alexander Haskell

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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  somebodyhealme on Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:35 pm

I definitely think it can be a function of living with chronic pain. It really wears you down. I also wonder if that wearing down process is part of the reason so many chronic migraineurs end up with a fibro diagnosis, too.
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Fibromyalgia

Post  drahaskell on Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:15 pm

I think you are right.... that fibro is just another condition that's floating on the surface of underlying hormonal, endocrine and other deficiencies.... and this is why the system fails because each person must be assessed and addressed in their own unique way...

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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  Mini on Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:07 am

This makes sense. However, I also think that such endocrinal changes are often triggered by neurological "misfiring" and that fibro and migraine pain is caused by the wrong messages sent to our body from our brain. I know that when I get very exited (happy) about something for a while I do not feel my pain as the rushing adrenaline is blocking the sensation.

I do agree that we all need totally individual approach - I think that this is the only way that medicine will make real progress; by treating each patient as unique in terms of our medical needs.
I am convinced that migraine is not just one condition, it is just a symptom of something else misfiring in our heads - as we know there is an endless variety to our symptoms etc. Many of us also suffer from other conditions like fibro, etc.

IN the ideal world we would should get the individual attention and all the tests we need, but I find that in reality it does not happen.
On the contrary, I often get toatlly conflicting advice from different specialists who treat me for different ailments, and that the medicine that one doctor said is essential for me, is causing much damage (through side effects), for another problem.
This keeps happening time, and time again. And when I try to explain this they get very annoyed (since each doctor thinks that s/he has the only answer).

Just to give an example: I have gastritis now, which I am sure was caused by all anti-inflammatories which weree prescribed for my fibro like pain. By my rheumatologist insist that I still need them etc, etc.
I end up confused and in the end my faith in the profession is almost completely gone, specially when I am told to ignore " all that I heard" meaning to ignore, what the other doctor said, and take something else which is making me even more ill.
When I poited it out once, I just got shrugging of the shoulders in response.

In fact I am sure that lots of my problems are actually caused by the medicines prescribed, yet I am trying to be a "good girl" and take the doctors advice, but the outcome seems to be that instead of getting better, I am only getting more and more unwell.

I would much prefer to go more natural route, but I very much doubt if my GP would even want to hear about it (and no I can not change him as there is not much choice locally and I already changed once)

Most doctors are quite conservative and not very flexible, so it is not easy to seek less conventional solutions, even if they make sense.
Buto thank you very much, for your feedback, it is good to learn more.


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Migraines & Thyroid

Post  drahaskell on Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:33 am

Hi Mini,
You are so right and your frustrations with the 'system' ring true. It is a one size fits all. This is the system's indoctrination.... find the name or label and then provide the medication. It treats symptoms and not cause but we are all beginning to recognize this approach as temporary and not working well for chronic conditions. In some ways it works for the acute situation but not on the long run with the chronic because there will always be secondary effects.

And as you mentioned, symptoms are an expression of something deeper and your condition being better when you are happy is a perfect example of the body-mind connection.

And in another way, this is why education is so important because if we can first of all understand the 'chemistry' and what's going on, and then hopefully recognize the origin, this is half the cure.

I also agree that it's very likely that some of the meds have gotten you into your present state and it's a difficult corner to get out of, and leaves you hesitant about taking the advice of any physician.

Thanks for sharing your frustrations and I do hope you find a physician that is more willing to listen and to give advice that is suitable for you and not just your symptoms...

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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  lissy on Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:12 am

I agree with Adrenal stuff - I've just had a saliva test to check my cortisol levels and mine are very low throughout the day. Doctor confirmed I have Adrenal Exhaustion. I"m trying some natural stuff first at the moment called Adrenotone - will see if that helps first. I've certainly also been told rest and relaxation is the most important. I've been reading a book by Dr James Wilson on Adrenal Fatigue and I've found it very good: http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9781890572150/Adrenal-Fatigue
For me getting the results was almost a relief - some kind of proof as to why I always feel so completely shattered. People don't understand how migraines can affect you - sometimes just saying I have a migraine doesn't really help the other person understand. I guess that's one of the challenges we all face.
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Re: Constant fatigue

Post  amy on Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:51 am

agree with you that it's nice to know why we are so tired all the time!





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