Question On Manners Here and There

My roommate and I were talking about the various customs around the USA. I had an Alaskan friend who visited her boyfriend's family and friends n Virginia. During visits, the hosts would say - look at the time. would you like to stay to dinner? As a Southerner, I know that means it is time to leave. She, as an Alaskan, took them at their word and often stayed for dinner - much tothe host's dismay. Just different customs.

We have some dear friends from Minneapolis, MN. When they invite us to dinner, they will say something like "Come for dinner. Dinner is at 5:00 PM. We being from the South and from California, understand that we are to arrive at or shortly 5:00 PM, visit for a bit, and eat at 5:30 or 6:00 PM. Oh no. For these guys, if they say dinner is at 5:00 and you arrive at 5:05, you will find them at the table, eating. If they say dinner is at 5 then lo and behold, dinner is AT 5.

We held a dinner party and invited three guys. None fo the guys have invited us back to dinner or drinks or anything. I figure all three decided they did not want to be friends. Where I grew up, if someone has you over for a dinner party, then you are almost obligated to have them over for social function of some sort within a couple of months. Not for these guys. My roommate, who was reared in California, says I am thinking Southern. their failure to invite us over means absolutely nothing.

What are the dinner and social obligations where you live?

Hi Richard.
Well here in the UK in our circle dinner is usually, say 7 for 7.30.
It is bad form to arrive early, and equally bad more than about 10 minutes late, but not necessary to be on time.
Isn't that bizarre.

As for reciprocals. No; have had guests never reciprocate, and we have been to dinner and not reciprocated, but this is mainly due to my health and inability to host well.

Some of our friends just like hosting. I don't.
My son loves it, his sisters do not. I guess it is a personal thing, but I agree the "rules" can vary a lot.
I'll bet someone else is going to post from England and tell me for them it is completely different.

Pen

When I read the title Richard, I thought you were going to wrap us on the knuckles for bad manners

I think it's probably individual rather than regional. Although I'd heartily agree Pen, never arrive early - you'd probably find your host in the shower. About 5 minutes late would be the ideal. Or if someone was coming to me, about ½ hour late as I'm never ready. However, as I rarely go out or have people because of the migraines, I'm probably out of touch. We owe a couple of people meals and I am continually wracked by guilt . I think you should repay the compliment and I do intend to . . . sometime.

Liz

If I am having people for dinner and they are not there or haven't called by 15 to 30 minutes prior to when I said dinner is I begin the think they aren't coming.

That being said, I usually have 40 or so people in at a time. So, I aim for 6:00 and am happy if everyone is eating by 6:30.

I don't think anything about people not reciprocating. I am "the cook" for our social group. My husband hates to go to other people's houses. My house is generally the best place for me to not be my best at. So, it is generally at our house.

I agree, never arrive early.

I don't know about reciprocating dinners...but what about gifts???? Some peolpe MUST give a return gift to a gifter and others don't. I give gifts because I want to give gifts, not because I want or need anything back. I didn't know that some people feel you MUST reciprocate if you receive a gift. Changed my whole outlook on gifting.

Many customs offer food, whether they want you to eat it or not. When I dated a chinese woman from trinidad it was made very clear to me that I could not refuse food when her mom offered it.

This weekend at my mother-in-laws place, I learned that my father-in-law found it extremely rude to leave any food on the plate, despite not having served myself.

Fell into this trap years ago in Portugal. People who we were staying with said "if your close by at lunch time, come for lunch".
We took that to mean if our sightseeing brought us close to the house, pop in for lunch.
But no. This was a solid invitation to their main meal of the day.
We didn't come back as they had already shown us so much hospitality in having us stay and we didn't want to bother them further.
We offended very badly. A huge meal had been prepared and we didn't come back.
Very embarrasing.

I find this very difficult but then I often feel like I'm from another planet. I wish folks would express what their rules are but I suppose that would be considered rude too.

I have this recurring dream in which I find myself at an elegant state dinner for Queen Elizabeth. I am not dressed correctly, which is fairly easy to tell once I'm there. But also I am not acting correctly. I don't know what I'm supposed to do, no one will tell me, and from the stinkeyes I'm getting from the other guests, it's clear I am disapproved of. What an uncomfortable position to be in. I often feel that way. I don't know what to do, no one offers to tell me, and asking is considered bad form!

Chris

Here, when you're invited to dinner at 5, it means dinner is served at 5:00. I normally tell people we're eating at 5, come any time after 4:30. I try to make sure I tell people when we're actually planning to sit down. When I do that, and people show up at 5:30 I find that rude because the food starts to go downhill by then. We used to have friends to dinner often who were always late for everything. It was so bad that I'd tell them we were going to eat 45 minutes before we actually planned to because that was the only way to get them there on time. It used to really irritate me.

I would never invite someone to stay for lunch or dinner unless I meant it. I wouldn't use that as a way to get people to go home. I imagine if that was the norm, though it would be surprising for someone to accept.

When I used to entertain a lot, I never expected a return invitation. Out of our group of friends hardly anyone cooked. lol

My home is small so less comfortable for larger groups. We are always asked out but I insist on bringing something and helping out when I get there. What I bring is never to outdo the cook so I bring wine or beer, some extra steaks or a simple salad. When we are told dinner is at about 6:00 but come early, we show up at 5:30. I help serve up drinks and keep things tidy and this is how I make up for my inability to host my own.

Angela

Brenda wrote:Here, when you're invited to dinner at 5, it means dinner is served at 5:00. I normally tell people we're eating at 5, come any time after 4:30. I try to make sure I tell people when we're actually planning to sit down. When I do that, and people show up at 5:30 I find that rude because the food starts to go downhill by then. We used to have friends to dinner often who were always late for everything. It was so bad that I'd tell them we were going to eat 45 minutes before we actually planned to because that was the only way to get them there on time. It used to really irritate me.

Brenda, I'm with you on this one. Maybe it's because I grew up in Minnesota (see Richard's comment about his friends in Minnesota).

Makes me think of the old adage, "you can call me anything, but just don't call me late to dinner".

I think it may have something to do with rural life, e.g. growing up on a farm. The meal was put on the table at a certain time and you were expected to be there to eat at that time because it isn't a restaurant. When I make a meal for a specific time, that means it will all be ready at that time (timed out to a "T"). If you come late, it will not be at its best.

Interesting topic for discussion though, Richard.

Becky

I live in the Country of approximation, so when you invite someone for dinner, you say: at ABOUT 8.00 pm. ABOUT means that arriving earlier is not considered normal. In this country nothing and no one is ever on time or early
Arriving later than 8.00 pm is considered normal instead.
Normally, food is prepared in advance and it's served when guests arrive but it's not a big issue if they arrive late.

What's considered very rude is to show up at dinner without a gift. Normally we show up with the dessert, with wine or with flowers.

Reciprocating is the normality as here we love to socialize through food, we love to sit at a table and eat slowly while we chat and enjoy the company of friends.

We learned all of that too Ivy from my daughter's ex.
The hard thing was trying to decline invitations from his father.
He wouldnt let you say no, nor let you leave....
He would sulk.....

I STILL have problems with what meal talking about where I live (but was not raised).

I have:

Breakfast
Lunch
Dinner

Hubby and best friend have:

Breakfast
Dinner
Supper

When I'm invited for Dinner I always have to clarify if it's lunch or not.

Charlotte,

Can tell it's a cultural division. I have family with the same conundrum but they are at different ends of the country - here it's one thing, there another. When in Greece....

Different parts of the US have different rules. Here you call before you go to someone's home. Where my dad is from - you just drop in. Was a huge shock for my mom when she lived with my dad's family.

Becky

Well in England dinner is always in the evening, except (and I mean nothing derogatory) in the very working classes years ago when dinner could be at lunch time.

So otherwise noon ish is lunch. Breakfast is of course in the morning.
But tea can be a cup of same and a cake, or a light evening meal when dinner might be.

Up north supper could come anytime from dinner time, to before bed.

Confused???? You will be....

I'm enjoying reading this thread. I always find different area's customs, etc. very interesting. Thanks for starting it, Richard.

Well we have,


Breakfast

Dinner (lunch)

Tea (evening meal)

Supper (just b4 bed)

In my home it is:

Breakfast

Brunch

Lunch

Supper if we have a holiday-Sunday dinner at noonish otherwise dinner.

pen wrote:Well in England dinner is always in the evening, except (and I mean nothing derogatory) in the very working classes years ago when dinner could be at lunch time.

Penny take that silver spoon out of your mouth!! LOL

Quite right Therese, the above description sounds as if someone is not only rather insecure but also poorly informed, since such wording is often related more to regional, rather then to specific class distinctions in UK.

And BTW, pointing to any class differences is most definitely, bad manners.
Senna

Now Senna - be nice. Pen stated it in such a way not to be offensive and indicated that it wasn't a current way of seeing it. But there are another generation that might call it different. That's what this thread is about.

Alright to a non -UK person. What the heck is tea? When I think of it, I think 4:00 in the afternoon. Sort of a break with a light snack. Am I wrong?

I think it is probably just as much individual as it is customary. I'm from Minneapolis, MN. For me personally, I'm more on a European clock where dinner is more like 8:00. This is true with most of my friends from here also (guess it is the type I hang around) With 5 kids in sports, dance, etc. there was no way we were going to be eating at 5:00 or 6:00. When invited to dinner I want to know exactly what time dinner is and what time to be there. For instance, if dinner is at 7:00 but you are serving cocktails before that, let me know what time cocktails are available. Usually my friends are very clear. I would never ever be late for dinner. That is rude rude rude unless you had a very good excuse.

HeelerLady wrote:

Alright to a non -UK person. What the heck is tea? When I think of it, I think 4:00 in the afternoon. Sort of a break with a light snack. Am I wrong?

High tea or afternoon tea did once upon a time be something you had at around 4.00pm, earl grey tea and cucumber sanwiches, etc etc, so yes you are right, but in parts of the uk now it is refered to as teatime, meaning your evening meal that you eat at around 5/6.00pm in the early evening.

Tea can vary as to where you live I think. To me, it's mid/late afternoon, cup of tea and maybe a snack. It's my favourite and most relaxing meal to go out for, tea and cake or scones but I guess that's very English (and very fattening) and mainly only happens when I'm on holiday.

I did gulp at your comment Pen

Liz

Hi Theresa, I think we posted about the same time. I still think of tea as 4.00ish but dispense with the cucumber sandwiches! When the children were small, we tended to call their meal in the evening 'tea' but it became supper or dinner as they grew older. Isn't high tea Scottish?

Liz