Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

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Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  pen on Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:15 am

How would I know please?
I just cant seem to get my normal 3/4 day breaks.
Have had some stress.
Weather is still playing silly b's
I am still trying to clear my sinuses.

Taken a bit more medication that usual, but not loads.

Other than that......

How would I know, those of you that have been certain.
Would it be more of the same pain, as bad.
Different??
Or same but less painful....

I know this has come up before n the old forum, but I cant trawl through there.
If I a in rebound I have no idea how to get out of it. I cant stand the pain.
But the medication does help a bit some of the time, so I don't want to be scared to take it.

Thanks guys.
P
Raining again....

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I TOO WONDER ABOUTS REBOUNDS SINCE.................................

Post  flo_02472 on Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:46 pm

I Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad rarely have a break from daily headaches. I hope my neurologist is right and doesn't think I suffer rebounds but 2 oter doctors disagree and say I take too much medication that causes rebound headaches. Stopping medication for just a day is miserable when your head is pounding. There is a withdrawal effect if one stops. I even try slowly decreasing and that is painful. We all gotta get thru our day and meds bring the pain level down most of the time. We need to live and get some pleasure out of life . We need the joy of having fun with a clear head. Like most of us there is virtually no social life in our future as in our present if we can't get some measure of relief. I have virtually no social lif and cannot attend most functions including a destination wedding in Mexico for my favorite nephew.
Please respond to me directly : flo_02472@yahoo.com

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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  Ivy on Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:30 am

Most of us don't believe in rebounds. They think that continous migraines are due to a bad cycle.
I don't know what to think, but I've tried to interrupt the assumption of abortives in those bad cycles and the migraines stopped. Just a case? It's possible...

I know it's heroic to resist without abortives; however I find that 24/36 hours of pain are worth in these cases. Of course, I can't do it when I have to work. I must take sick days off and lay in bed all the time to cope with migraines without taking drugs.

Bye
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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  theresae on Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:51 am

pen i think the only way to truely rule it out and put that worry to bed is to have a medication holiday (dont you hate that phrase) and then if it doesnt change the pattern or frequncey to your M then you can def rule it out, and move on from that idea,

i have done it twice but have been able to use preventatives at the same time, which reduced the severity of the migraines, my findings have been that it helps mainly to reduce severity and slighty reduces frequncey of migraines, and then when i start back on triptans i am ok for several months, still have migraines 2/4 days a week but can keep it under control, but then after a few months the amount of triptans increase and then i hit a bad patch of constant migraines for weeks and have to go back to gp and do a medication holiday alongside of preventatives and some time off of work,

so i do think that triptans can sometimes cause rebounds for me, and so my way of controlling and managing the migraines changes every few months, at the present time, dont get me wrong i love triptans they have given me some of my life back, they enable me to keep hold of my job and enjoy my kids, but every so often i hit a patch where i have constant migraine that just will not budge no matter what i take, and then the triptans are useless, and i go into utter panic.

sorry i hope i havent rambled on, feeling shattered today have had really busy stressful days at work, and have a job to put one foot in front of the other.

i know this bothers you pen, and i do hope you can find a solution to it, maybe go back to gp and try talking it through with hubby there,
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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  02R96 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:46 am

I hear that term tossed around me all the time. I did the 2 month "no analgesic" thing once and nothing changed; the pain pattern was the same and god those thumper days were hell!

I don't doubt the existence of rebound headaches, but I don't believe I have them. Suspect
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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  estre004 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:51 am

I'm not so sure what I think about them either. I'm a strong believer in eliminating all pain if you can and this involves medication and sometimes overmedication. I haven't had any rebound effects. Maybe some people are more prone to them than others just like the medications we take effect us all differently. I can't imagine going without, but if that is what you think might be happening, it is the only way to find out.

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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  alli on Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:07 am

I do think that some times we do get MOH. I know that I have had them a few times. The way I can tell is that the pain is different than a migraine and it hits at the same time every day. I have been know to overuse Excedrin and Advil which ends up giving me a MOH. Taking a break from them is excruciating as you have to give up that daily dose for a week or two so you can break the pattern.

I am careful now to not take Excerdin and Aleve more than three days in a row and I don't take Advil anymore mostly because of stomach issues. I still have periods of daily migraines and those feel much worse than my experience with MOH.

So sometimes it is MOH and sometimes it is just a freakin horrible streak of attacks. For me, MOH is duller than a migraine and hits more of my head as opposed to the sharp spike of a migraine.

This is my experience and I know that not everyone agrees about MOH but I do think that some people are more likely to get them that others just as our experience with migraines is different for each person.

Alli
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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  estre004 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:12 am

Something just came to me that might have some merit as tot why some people get MOH and others don't. I never had headaches at all and I mean NEVER until I had a migraine in my late 40's. Had no idea what one even felt like. I wonder if MOH is more headache than migraine and people who get headaches also are more prone to them. Just theorizing.

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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  pen on Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:32 am

Thanks all. I don't think I believe in them, certainly not in the incidence the medics throw out.
The good neuros here suggest it is 2/5%.
How many people on this forum?? What is 5%??

As for taking a break. I dont know what is wrong with me that is right with all of you that can, but...I cant.
Old and tired, I don't know, but I can only admire those of you that manage to do it.
I honesty think I would jump out of the window, assuming I could get up.
Oh and I dont have any preventatives at all.

I dont take huge amounts of medication, I think.
But the Triptans have increased, and I am finding it harder to get medication free days.
There could be several reasons for this....
Weather.
Hormones
Stress (see previous posting)
Sinuses.
Other
I have no idea, but I am always mindful of the medication issue, even though I have huge doubts on the existence of MOH.
When you get a bad run, you do wonder if you might be doing something wrong....right??

So to my original question.
HOW do you know you have it?
Is it more of the same or different at all?

Those of you who say they have never had any rebound, yet take regular rescue medication.
How do you know it isnt rebound??
I mean I have assumed mine isnt, but it occurs to me, how would I know, given the constancy of the pain and frequency of the medication....

Hope this all makes sense, and thanks for tring to help me unravel my head.
P cheers


Last edited by pen on Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  pen on Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:34 am

estre004 wrote:Something just came to me that might have some merit as tot why some people get MOH and others don't. I never had headaches at all and I mean NEVER until I had a migraine in my late 40's. Had no idea what one even felt like. I wonder if MOH is more headache than migraine and people who get headaches also are more prone to them. Just theorizing.

Thanks Linda,
See although I never had a migraine in my life until peri menopause (as you know) I did have headaches. Not that often, but they werent the kind a quick kip could get rid of.

Thats why I would like to know if those that feel they have rebounded (whatever you want to call it this week) have a different pain or not??

P

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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  pen on Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:43 am

I do think that some times we do get MOH. I know that I have had them a few times. The way I can tell is that the pain is different than a migraine and it hits at the same time every day. I still have periods of daily migraines and those feel much worse than my experience with MOH. For me, MOH is duller than a migraine and hits more of my head as opposed to the sharp spike of a migraine.

Thanks Ali, Now my pain is always the same pain. It varies in severity but the same pain.
It also hits when it feels like it, but almost all my pain is there when I wake up.
I do have a low between abt 4 and 7pm but more often than not it backs off without med. (Not always.)

I dont take medication every day, but have only had 3 days last week with no OTC. But took 2 Triptans.
The OTC has not really increased, and back in 2000 I was taking 120 (excedrin alike) a month.
Now its nearer 30. But the pain has increased regardless.
Triptans back then were abt 5/6 a month and now its 8/10.
So things have worsened in 10 years, but its the last 5 months or so seem to have been so difficult.

Thanks for sharing your experience Alli (hope you are feeling better today)

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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  LG on Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:48 am

I've said it before but I don't think my migraines are MOH because the meds still work. They aren't supposed to work anymore if it is rebound. The pain I've got going on sure isn't a headache either, it's a one-sided migraine. I am sensitive to light, sound and smell, sometimes I'm even sick to my stomach and I have multiple aura symptoms all of which do not occur with MOH.

MOH have been known to feel like a rubberband tightening around your head, a pressure on both sides or all around your head. I would imagine it isn't as intense (as I've read anyhow) as a migraine. It rarely has any other symptoms besides the head pain, in other words you aren't photo/phonophobic ect.

Good luck. I agree with whomever said to take a break Pen. I know you said you can't but I think you are giving yourself less credit than you deserve. If you spoke with a doctor and got the proper care, maybe you could give it a shot. You seem very concerned about MOH and the only way to know for sure if you have it or not is to stop taking meds. It seems like you stress over it and that can't be healthy for you. I'm not saying quit meds if you don't feel comfortable but I know you will keep on worrying unless you stop taking triptans. I'm just looking out for ya Wink
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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  pen on Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:12 pm

lovegia wrote:I've said it before but I don't think my migraines are MOH because the meds still work. They aren't supposed to work anymore if it is rebound. The pain I've got going on sure isn't a headache either, it's a one-sided migraine. I am sensitive to light, sound and smell,
MOH have been known to feel like a rubberband tightening around your head, a pressure on both sides or all around your head. I would imagine it isn't as intense (as I've read anyhow) as a migraine. It rarely has any other symptoms besides the head pain, in other words you aren't photo/phonophobic ect.
If you spoke with a doctor and got the proper care, maybe you could give it a shot. Wink

Hey thanks. From what you have just said. I dont have it,and your post is great. Now if those that do have it could just post and all of us can compare the difference, it would be so helpful.
My pain is always the same, always one sided (except sometimes I gt it in my eyes, which is usually a migraine starting).
Pressure both sides, NOPE. Ri
Rubberband NOPE. Just the knife in my head...well you know the rest. It is low grade migraine or the nerve pain I believe I have which is all interlinked anyway.
As for the doctor thanks but I just dont have anyone. My neuro is ignoring me it seems and my GP is still on long term leave as her daughter got liver cancer and sadly died. I am on my own for now. Thank god for this forum
Thank you so much.

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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  LizzieB on Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:38 pm

Pen, I agree with the others who say the only way you're going to find out if it's MOH is to have a break from the tablets. I know it is VERY difficult to think of, just unimaginable to go without the medication you depend on. Having just gone through it, I couldn't have done it without a huge push from the doctor. Have you got a supportive GP? Your family certainly sound as though they are and if you have a plan, perhaps it would help. It certainly did me. I'd tried numerous times before just not to take a tablet but always caved in. It wasn't until it was actually planned, time off work etc, that I knew in my head I had to do it.

It wasn't just the frequency of the migraines I was having, it was the change over the months. The bad ones are usually the ones that come on during the day but I began waking with them more and more and they were in my forehead, around my head, a tight band like LG said, not the one-sided tortuous ones or in my eyes. Although they often developed into them during the day. Which is why I ended up taking so many triptans.

I'm not being self-righteous because it certainly isn't great now, but apart from last week (wrong time of the month) it is a bit better, definitely less triptans, migraines less severe, etc. It may revert, as Theresa's do, I can see it happening but at the moment thing's aren't quite as bad.

My GP has prescribed another preventative, but that's another story and although the tablets are in a bag on the shelf, I'm still trying to get my head round it and decide whether to start taking them.

Good luck Pen, b****y migraines.

Liz
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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  LizzieB on Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:47 pm

Sorry our posts overlapped, I would have said things differently. Is there another GP you could sign on with? You never know, you might find a helpful one.

Before I went on the break, I researched MOH on the internet for hours. It seemed to vary as to the exact description. Some said it was more like a tension type headache, whereas others said it could be a usual migraine or combination of both. Sorry I know that isn't very helpful.

Liz
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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  pen on Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:00 pm

Liz thank you. No the GPs are not interested in me. You take your Triptans and they work so you go away...
The neuro I was seeing isn't replying to my emails but although very nice all he wanted to do was give me more preventatives.
I dont want any more preventatives. I am scared to take them now. None so far have done anything except make me feel awful and if anything cause more pain.
I know some people find help from them, but most seem to only get temporary relief and then have to find another.
I have such low life quality as it is. I cant stand any more of that. If I knew it might work of course I would go for it, but I have had at least one of all the types I think and Not a bit of help. Propranalol lasted over a year. At first no side effects but then winter came my fingers turned white, so the GP took me off them. NO change at all of migraines. And ditto for all the others.
Because of the Fibro I am sensitive to all medication.
So I try to get by on rescue med. But all I have is Migard and OTC Anadin extra. In america they seem to get loads of pain meds.
Have you been given anything better than Andadin??
Anyway thanks Liz.

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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  theresae on Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:43 pm

LizzieB wrote:

It wasn't just the frequency of the migraines I was having, it was the change over the months. The bad ones are usually the ones that come on during the day but I began waking with them more and more and they were in my forehead, around my head, a tight band like LG said, not the one-sided tortuous ones or in my eyes. Although they often developed into them during the day. Which is why I ended up taking so many triptans.



Liz

yeah this was the same for me, over my forehead around the back of my head feeling hot and sick and then as day wore on developing into migraine which always goes to the right side of head and increased in severity,with all the light, and motion issues etc, and ended up taking triptan, and eventually got to stage of it being every day and takin triptan everyday until nothing would shift it at all,

its soul destroying in the end,
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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  pen on Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:58 pm

I always wake with my migraines. Take Triptans for them if OTC dont work (hardly ever).
Always the same damn pain. Never varies and has never changed. Not changing that much, but just not getting the gaps like I was. I am thinking my sinuses might be the culprit, I am not really relating to your descriptions of MOH, but I thank you.

Reason I want to know is MAA tells me to take more medication to not let the p;ain win, but of course they also say dont take to oo much.

I dont want to suffer what might be a bad spell for fear of MOH when I dont even have it and could get relief...
Hope that makes sense.

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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  theresae on Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:10 pm

pen wrote:

So I try to get by on rescue med. But all I have is Migard and OTC Anadin extra. In america they seem to get loads of pain meds.
Have you been given anything better than Andadin??
Anyway thanks Liz.

pen i have got diclofenic 50mg, along with stemitil, anti sickeness and soluable paracetomal, (sorry about spellings) as long as i take it with abit of food, i can keep them down and they do help, otc stuff big waste of space, and the more stuff they have in them the more risk of rebound, such as co-dis and solpadine, and co-codamol,
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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  pen on Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:19 pm

pen i have got diclofenic 50mg, along with stemitil, anti sickeness and soluable paracetomal, (sorry about spellings) as long as i take it with abit of food, i can keep them down and they do help, otc stuff big waste of space, and the more stuff they have in them the more risk of rebound, such as co-dis and solpadine, and co-codamol


I have Diclofen and also naproxen. So far hey havent helped a bit. I only seem to respond to aspirin (which is odd cos it is also an NSAID) or Triptans. Diclofen and Naproxen are closer to Ibuprofen then Aspirin which is different, but still odd.
I dont need any anti sickness as I have never once been sick (nausea sometimes), and stemitil makes me anxious.

I agree about the combined medication. I would like something with just aspirin and caffeine (I dont think the caffeine hurts me).
I do feel it helps me. I know I could just take 3 aspirins with coffee but I get horrible indigestion from coffee. So I take the Anadin extra. It has paracetamol. I guess I should try the Diclofen again. Thank you for sharing.

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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  HeelerLady on Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:18 pm

Rather in the dark, what does MOH stand for? I'm having fun coming up with my own acronyms but I don't think they are related. Also HA? Sorry but I'm a bit lost. Either that or my brain is just completely shutting down and ignoring the obvious. Or it's something that hasn't been discussed with me.
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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  LG on Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:23 pm

It's okay Smile

HA: HeadAche
MOH: Medication Overuse Headache
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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  LizzieB on Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:03 am

Pen, the only thing I've found apart from triptans to help is Syndol which is paracetamol, codeine and caffeine. It can take the edge off and occasionally stops it but I use it sparingly because of the codeine and rebounds. It also messes with my stomach Sad

I'm also having limited success with coffee which I'd avoided for years but see it doesn't agree with you Crying or Very sad

Sorry I can't be more help.

Liz
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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  estre004 on Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:49 am

Cafergot? Have you tried that?

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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

Post  pen on Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:23 am

I havent heard that mentioned over here for years Linda.
I know it was considered expensive, but no sign of it when I search UK.
Hmm
P

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Re: Have I succumbed to MOH/Rebound? Why all the pain?

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