Freeganism - dumpster diving...

While I was watching "Wife Swap" episode - UK version,
It's the first where I've heard about this lifestyle - Freeganism:
http://frugalliving.about.com/od/bargainshopping/p/Freegan.htm
and saw the Freegan Mom diving into the private dumpsters looking into discarded but still usable items.
The amount of perfectly good food thrown out, wasted for no reason astounded me.

I am, as probably everyone at one point in their life, guilty of, say, an occasional spoiled meat - taken out of the fridge, meant to be cooked later and then never been.
Then spoiled beyond any salvage, and needed to be discarded.

But I always felt so horrible when something like that happened, and really it didn't happened that often.
I more often let the fresh produce like green parsley, lettuce sit too long but even that it's just that when you buy these thing you just have to buy as much as they sell not as much as you need - a few twigs, for example.
And then I am too tired to wash them and cut them and bag them into freezer, so... that's truly waste due to my laziness.

But you wouldn't survive out of my dumpster, oh no.

Then I was thinking- would I do that - live, eat out of a dumpster? Not for the necessity but to embrace the anti-consumerism lifestyle.?

Well, gotta admit seeing these perfectly good packages of Smarties or whatever it was, a big bag with a hole on the side and full of smaller packets inside, perfectly good and clean to eat come to think of it for 0 money.. I thought... hmmm... that doesn't look yucky at all!

Risa

I would always wonder what non-obvious or unseen reason there may have been for it to be pitched out. Your mind could start spinning thinking about all the stuff we threw out for a very good reason but it may not be obvious. Without going too far think about some "alternate" uses for certain types of produce.

Or something that might be perfectly OK but what was next to it or on top of it in the dumpster? Anyone that has pets knows that nothing in the garbage would be usable at all.

nothing wrong with being fiscally "wise" but dumpster dive....nope

Here in the US we have enough problems keeping the brand new food on the store shelves safe.

I try very hard not to waste food. But we end up wasting a fair bit. I give away what I can and freeze what I can. And I try to be frugal. I am not above getting something out of the trash that could be sanitized. But food? NO WAY!!! I have a major aversion to food born illness. I was a waitress for a long time and had to repeatedly take the state run food safety class. Nope, no dumpster food for me, NO way! (now wood furniture etc... that I have done and will repeat You can sanitize that!)

M

I have a hunch that a cookie from a package of Chip's Ahoy would taste a bit different after it sat next to a dirty diaper for a couple days in 80 deg weather.

How appetizing would that bag of cheesy poofs be with a cat turd stuck to it?

I am endlessly amazed at what various groups do to "make a statement". They get so self absorbed they never realize that the only statement I see is they are borderline insane. And when the media no longer covers them and the novelty wears off they move on to something else.

One case of E Coli or Salmonella would change their attitude within minutes. When I was 18 I spent three days in the hospital from an under cooked burger. I will never, ever forget that hellish experience as long as I live. It's beyond amazing what our immune systems will do to rid our bodies of a dangerous toxin or pathogen. Even to the point of causing the body to die.

nothing wrong with being fiscally "wise" but dumpster dive....nope

yeah, I can see how a cool Porsche guy diving into a filthy dumpster could cause a few raised eyebrows


It was my first reaction, too - YUCK!!
but then, the food we are talking about is - unopened cans, vacuum sealed packages etc.
the insides are still perfectly good. for example, someone's thrown away slightly dented soup can. or, for unknown reason, still unopened, hermetically sealed Pringles chips.
(maybe they tried a new taste, but bought two at once and found out they didn't like the taste after all?)
why would someone throw away partially eaten bag - 3/4 left- of Smarties- maybe the kids got into it and the rest was thrown out as punishment? the rest was in small packets, hermetically sealed, all dry and clean and safe to eat inside.

I am saying not all the discarded food presented health hazard. I know, I am ambivalent about the whole idea myself... I dunno if I would so readily delve into it... I dunno...
but the longer I thought about it the less "heck, no!" I was, also.

One thing- it sure makes one stop and think about all this horrible wastefulness.

Risa

Yuuck- all this revulsion, it is easyl from the position of the comforts of the full fridge, cofmfort of choice.
Some people have no freedom of choice -this is waht occured to me when I read it.

It all depends how hungry you are.
Have you ever been really hungry? Really, really hungry?
Only then perhaps you could judge.

And BTW, have you looked into the subject of real food waste - and how many lorries of absolutelyy perfect food are dumped each evening in order to keep supermarket prices high. The official excuse is to keep food fresh, which is with few exceptions is an absolute lie.Most of that food is perfect and would be still perfect next day - they just order too much cheap food, to sell expenseviley to you and you did not buy it. "Sell by date" is an official name for this deliberate waste, to keep proces artificially high.

If you watch the loading bays of any supermarket each evening you will see how much perfectly edible food is thrown as garbage.
At the same time when so many people (many of them small children) go to sleep hungry?

Supermarkets refuse the charities who approach them and want to use the food for the needy people, sincethey say it is not their policy. Some let charities collect some of the dumped food, but not much.
Theey prefer to have it rot, instead to keep profits. This is not secret - only to you the ordinary it is great news. They all do it.

Did you know how much is wasted? Such wastage is kept quiet. So highest profits are made, under excuse of "sell by date".
Whilst people are truly hungry maybe not far away from, they might be sick, or lost their jobs in order that all the bankers can get even fatter bonuses this year etc.

I think when considering this subject it is important to mention wider picture, and that not all people have freedom of choice when it comes to their next meal, some people do not. Food is nourishemnt, people will eat in odred to survive even in USA, Canada or UK.
I am not even mentioning those millions of starving people elsewhere in the world who never know how it feels NOT be hungry.

I think these people you mention Risa who are collecting the wasted food are trying to attract attention to this important issue.
An issue which worries our grandchildren.
My grandchildren are already asking such questions - more children are asking questions.
What sort of world we are leaving them. Make sure that you know what to say to them when it is your turn and such subject is mentioned - remember all children deserve truthful answers.

Truth is seldom advertised, only lies.
So lies are believed, the truth - not so much.

And Risa, please believe me I am most definitely not talking about the spoilt meat that you were to ill to cook, it happens to all of us at times - and we cannot help it - but being aware of what is is hidden beahind those issues is important.

Senna

My MIL gave me a box of Christmas candy. And then told me my BIL got it at the dump. "Who would believe someone would thrown away perfectly good candy?" She said.

She was so proud of her find and was tickled to share it so I accepted graciously and went home and put back in the trash so that my BIL can find it at the dump again (he works there).

If I were hungry, of course it would be more palatable, but I'm not.

I'm not a germaphobe...we go by the 5 second rule at our house (or if you can beat the dogs to it), but eating out the dumpster when I'm not starving? Nope.

The grocery stores in the US donate a lot of surplus, mislabeled and damaged package food to food banks.

Survival is an entirely different situation then freegans. I saw a news report about them and they are not starving homeless people. It's symbolic and they are making a statement, which that's fine but the revulsion clouds it a bit in my opinion.

My wife and I spend about $400 per month on groceries and none of it goes to waste. Meat scraps go to the dogs and produce scraps go to the pygmy goat and chickens. We did not need a group of people eating out of dumpsters to convince us to not waste food. Our check books keep us from doing that.

It is obvious Brent, that you know no hunger, but some people in USA, and other western countries go hungry enough to overcome the revulsion and risk disease in order not to starve. You have that choice. I hope you and your family always will but please do not look down on those who do not.

You are right that this people try to make symbolic point. Good. Someone needs to. Thye are brave indeed.
Food situation is such serious issues thatd they are trying to attract attention to the greatest human challenge:
there is not enough food on this planet to feed people and whilst few countires keep throwing away mountans if the suff every day, progressively killing themselves from getting grotesquely more obese, the rests starves. Obesity is the issue. Something is wrong with that whole picture.

And do you happen to know what is the proportion of food given to charities by supermarkets
in comparision to the food being thrown away daily? Drop in the ocean of waste, insignifact drop in the ocean.
Just enough to use as an excuse, when they try to fool poorly informed people.

Senna

Freeganism is not about global hunger. It's anti capitalism, greed etc. Freegans are not impoverished homeless people. They are political social activists and I have a right to not agree with them. I have a right to find their practices revolting. They also endorse theft and trespassing, I don't.

"Freegans salvage the food for political reasons, rather than out of need."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeganism

You have a right to disagree with them, just as they have a right to speak for people who are suffering already as a result of capitalism and greed.
Yes, of course it is a political protest movement, movemnt which also tries to point to the fact that there are no endless food resources, and that we need to protect any land which is misused for production of food, which is then wasted.

Some other poitical movement might be working to protect the wildlife before human destroy what is left of it.
Just look at what situation that greed has created in the south (and north Alaska and Luisiana) of your country where wildlife and peopl's lives are beying destroyedt because no one has been paying any attention to some similar political voices, which some long time ago predicted such outcomes.

One day something like thiss might happen right in your backyard - but you have a right not to listen. You have a right not to agree. Denial works only for so long. In the end you will have to find an answer to such difficult questions. From the next generation.
I was sying, that you better be ready.

Senna

sorry something went wrong then posted twice. Senna

I am not going to get involved in a flame war with you. We have differing opinions and I am fine with that.

I however agree with you Brent, as I watched this Wife Swap episode (not whole so I don't know the end of it)
and I seem to know more about Freeganism than Senna seem to do.

The Freegan family lived in a dilapidated camper van, (looked like there wasn't the toilet in there)
their only son was so ashamed and embarrassed of the way they lived he asked to be dropped out for school
at least 400 feet away from it then sprinted there to not to be late.
He didn't wanted anybody to know how they lived. The father confronted about this by the swapped wife (from materialistic family, of course) replied "I can only hope he can one day understand the values we try instill in him".

Well anti-consumerism all fine and dandy, but at the same time the Freegan daddy was sitting on his hands all the time- wasn't working, wasn't supporting his family (his motto was: "the God will provide")
neither seemed to the Freegan mother.
I can understand living modestly, or even not but still reducing waste, saving environment and all that but yeah

I agree with Brent - going to live hippie way in a falling apart cramped van with a leaking roof and lacking a toilet is going into insane extreme.
It has nothing to do with going homeless and being hungry. It looked suspiciously as being inept, inert and plain lazy. maybe it started in good faith, but ended as easy way out of responsibilities.


Risa

You get UK Wife Swap Risa?.....most of the people on it are awful and thankfully not representative of us all.
We get the US one and find it much more entertaining.

We have people who get their food from the super market out of date stuff.
They are dumpster divers, but they do call it "freeganism"

The food is good, the markets chuck out good stuff, but it wouldnt be for me.
It is usually packed or canned, but they do trespass to do it.
These people are not starving, they just seem to get a kick out of something for nothing.
(even Salmonella?? )
Some make political statements others just lazy and cheap I think.
The amount of food wasted is obscene (not in our house, we waste nothing).

No one in the UK is

starving

. We have as welfare system.
These days people plead poverty because they cant afford a large screen TV.
There is of course true poverty in the world.
I dont believe its in England, not even like when i was a kid.

Risa those people on that Wife Swap, i think I saw that one....shleppy people, but sadly not an isolated case.

are you kidding me Risa.....? approach a dumpster with a Porsche? no way, that's what Mercedes-Benzs' are for.

massive difference as we know between abject poverty and necessity vs. having enough wealth to buy what is needed or wanted.

utility is another.

let's not senna drive this into a communism vs. capitalism debate.

in my area, the grocery stores, and public contribute tremendously.

i hope they are dumpster diving for deodorant while they are at it.

An extension of that is mushroom hunters that routinely trespass on my property. Property that I paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to purchase and improve. And thousands more each year in taxes. Never mind I am only 1/2 mile from state owned forest that allows mushroom hunting. And no they don't confuse my place with state forest. My house, two shops, chicken coup and cars are in plain site from anywhere on my place.

It's their attitude that the whole world is their little oyster and they don't recognize or respect boundaries. They quite often damage livestock fences by climbing over them or just flat out cutting them open. Every spring and fall I am yelling at them to get the living &^ck off my place.

So any group that espouses theft and trespassing is going to boil my blood something fierce. They can get a job and buy their own dam property if they like wild mushrooms that much.

I will not endorse, support or even listen to any group that advocates crime and disrespects my rights.

To compound matters 2/3rds of my land is old growth forest I have left untouched and wild. This is great cover and food for wildlife. That is how I get the pics I post here of the critters. They can't even respect the fact that I am trying to be a responsible steward of nature. That is why I have wild mushrooms, they require very fertile shaded humus to grow on.

So in my book people like that are inconsiderate, disrespectful, self serving pieces of crap. I don't give two sh(*s what their politics or ideals are.

Brent, as you know, since I've expressed if often enough, that I do like much of what you are doing , and I also agree, that sometimes it is best to agree, to disagree.

And, no, I do not want any kind of war with you (sorry, I am not familiar with the expression "flame war" anyway). Disussion does not mean war - even when people do not agree.
As long as they remain civil to each other, we can exchange knowledge and learn something from each other. I suppose this is mainly European way, we are more use to it.

mgb. I like your idea of using Mercedes Benz - I am all for it - only the smell would probably give me a bad M, so I shall leave it to people who are more daring, then I.

They are the fighting force, I am only discussing, drawing attention (as they are) to the wider issue.


Senna

I can see that you main source of knowledge on the subject, Pen, comes from the famous scientific source: Wife Swap - no wonder you claim, that there is no poverty in UK because:

"We have as welfare system.
These days people plead poverty because they cant afford a large screen TV.
There is of course true poverty in the world.
I dont believe its in England, not even like when i was a kid.

Risa those people on that Wife Swap, i think I saw that one....shleppy people, but sadly not an isolated case".

Perhaps you would care to open your eyes, and look around, and find out some real facts and figures when making such statements.
As any inner city school teachr will tell you, there is plenty of daily evidence of poverty wherever you look, malnourished children at scholl who miss on the most basic items of food and clothing, living in appaling conditions never having any holidays are far from unusual.
Poverty in UK, as in USA, is a s serious issue affecting very large part of population.

So, if you are are cabaple of stretching your mental powers beyong your TV screen, to look at some real facts about poverty in UK, perhaps you care to look at some of the relevant research on the subject:

http://www.poverty.org.uk/10/index.shtml?2

http://www.poverty.org.uk/10/c.pdf

IN fact 14 million people count in this group out of population (out of just over 60 million) - maybe this is not a lot to you, but it is a lot if you are one of them. The "Shlappy" people as you call them, Pen are about these 14 million poverty stricken people in UK.They are trying to attract attention to the larger problem in this way.

Look at the facts on The Essential Items Lacking list (including basic food which people cannot afford) in so many families - it is startling. The more you look the more youl learn. Perhaps lack of shoes is not essential enough for you?

Or, perhaps you want to use this other favourite English excuse: "I do not want to know" and remain ignorant of such important facts.
It is not rocket science Pen, but if you have any difficulty in reading the grafs, or understanding the academic language on the website in question, I will be happy to explain what it all means. IT really is not difficult, only if you prefer to "look the other way". This is what most people do.

Senna

Everyone else can speak for themselves Senna, but I will not discuss anything on this forum with anyone who cannot refrain from being personal and insulting. That is not the premiss of discussion. You need to learn to refrain from attacking people on a personal level, purely because they hold a different opinion. I will only say we fundamentally disagree.
Your rudeness is totally unacceptable to me.

Since you raise the point of rudeness: there speaks someone, who clearly enjoyes calling other people Shleps...
This is obviously meant as an offensive expression - it is derogatory and patronising.

I knew you would not understand the article I suggested and this is why the whole premiss escapes you. What this people are doing, is about that, the wider picture, it is about poverty in your country and many others - you just cannot grasp it this concept.

They do it with the aim that the subject is discussed, discussed publicly in mature way. That attention is drawn to it. Have you heard the expression there is not such thing as bad publicity. This is their publicity. They have an imprtant mission, they want to attract attention.
They have succeded and this discussion is the direct result.
I am perfctly entitled to express my opinion on the subject.

This is directly connected to Risa's original post. She mentions many aspects of this issue, and so do others, I expand on the same theme.
I respect any opinion, which is rationaly presented. Yours are not.
Since you say you do not wish to discuss things, why you keep respodning to my posts - it is not obligatory.

Senna

Wow, Senna.... What crawled up your..... You don't have to attack Pen so nastily. " Stretch her mental powers beyond her TV screen"? Kinda nasty. And she wasn't calling you or anyone on this form schleppy. I liken her comment to when we call those type of people "white trash". And before you get all uppity with me, there are parts of my family that I no longer have contact with who are "white trash" so I know what I am talking about.

This whole discussion started about people who CHOOSE to live a life of poverty and follow behaviors that are dangerous, not ones that are there by circumstance.

Not everyone has to agree with you. You don't have to be so harsh when what is supposed to be a civil discourse doesn't follow your particular point of view. If someone doesn't agree with you, let it go. You don't have to beat us over the head with your point of view.

You know Senna, people who are fit and CAN work but choose not to
hiding behind political correctness - and you can recognize those easily for the fact that you can be poor but clean and tidy and not spent all the time sitting on their hands expecting the good "God to provide",
ARE SHLEPPY.

There is a difference between poor and poor, as we established, and the reasons behind it.
I know poor people living below poverty line who you'd never guess they were it.
They were so clean and so organized you'd never guess their clothes were second- strike that, third or fourth hand and their entire income was 400 buck a month.
They were supported by welfare, but the mother was clean hard working and organized and didn't let her family become SHLEPPY.
That mean she took pains her house was always clean, her kids always clean and tidily clothed and groomed, as well as herself. She even bought half used bottles of nail polish for pennies at second hand stores so she could give herself manicure.

Now that's a lesson in attitude that these Swap Wife Freegan Parents who looked slovenly, should be taking from her.
Instead they looked shleppy, and seemed to have shleppy attitude.

For example, they have a child, is it healthy and responsible to let the child live in a stinking, leaking van, risking all sorts of mold related diseases?
all it takes is for the father to go to work a few hours to have the roof repaired. but, no, his philosophy is:
"God will provide".
God in the first place help those who help themselves, you know...

So, concluding, Pen simply called the kettle black which is absolute truth.

PEN:

Of course we are aware show like Wife Swap is not representative of what entire UK is, we know for shows like that the extreme spectrum must be combined to be interesting.
Likewise, for us in North America whatever is in Europe is refreshing


Risa