Shady Dentist?

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Shady Dentist?

Post  Anna's Mom on Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:19 pm

My coworker told me an unbelievable story (to me), and I'm wondering what you think.

Her son was laid off his job, and the family qualified for free dental care from the state. Her son and wife are very good about dental hygiene with the kids. They have gone to the dentist in the past, and they try very hard to keep up with brushing and stuff.

They have a five year old son. He has baby teeth. No problems...

But they went to the "free" dentist, and he is back there a long time with the son. Finally the mom is told he has eleven cavities, and he needs root canals and crowns. The dentist did one root canal and crowns on one side. Without telling the mom! She didn't find out about it until it was over. Then she was told to bring him back in a week to keep working on the rest.

She was just floored. How could he have eleven cavities and such other problems (like all of a sudden)? At the age of five, with all baby teeth.

I thought it sounded very shady and pretty shocking for where we live. What do you think? I don't have young kids, and I don't know how dentists deal with young kids these days. Don't you need a parent's consent/permission to do invasive procedures? Are these procedures done on baby teeth?

Cheryl
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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  Almostangela on Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:37 pm

Definately worth a second opinion, especially the route canals. However, my friends child had to have major work on her little girls teeth at about that age. Some people are born with teeth like rocks and some are so soft. If the cavity doesn't get fixed, it could go down into the adult teeth.

The blessing is that she gets it paid for, but there has to be more than one dentist around.
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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  Richard on Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:16 pm

Sounds WAY too suspicious. I would find a different dentist immediately. I would also have a talk with that child about good touching and bad touching. A dentist spending inordinate amount of time with a child just sets off my alarm bells.
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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  Brent on Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:34 pm

My own personal experience says never, ever have your child alone with any health care provider. Period, no exceptions. If they don't like that then find another dentist.

Some of you may remember my incident with a urologist. A doc can harm a child and you most likely will never be able to prove it. The health dept and police will believe a doctor over a patient (certainly a child) 99% of the time.

You should never let your husbands, sons brothers etc have any type of "plumbing" exams done alone either.
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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  HeelerLady on Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:40 pm

I have my own dental horror stories from childhood. What I remember about it was that the room was full of people (mainly to hold me down and mouth open - 2 sealants, 2 fillings and 6 extractions on a child under 8 all at once). After that little fiasco, we found another dentist and it took me a very long time to want to visit the dentist (I found one in my teen years who I still see and is fabulous).

Personally, I'd find another dentist. That's awfully traumatic for a 5 year old. And good point about the being alone part Brent.
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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  lesherb on Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:00 pm

I can't believe they'd put crowns on baby teeth. That's ridiculous.

And I agree with Brent. I never let my kids be alone at the doctor or dentist. I wasn't even thinking about inappropriate touching at the time. I was thinking about my child being afraid to be alone with the doctor.

Gee whiz!
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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  alli on Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:06 pm

That just sounds horrible. I would be pissed if someone did that kind of work on my kid without clearing it with me FIRST! And I never left my kids alone with a doctor.

Something is wrong here.
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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  theresae on Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:14 pm

sorry i am a bit confused , where was the mum? was she not in the room with her child, or have i misunderstood,
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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  Paradox on Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:17 pm

I think this dentist is milking the State. I've never heard of root canals on baby teeth. And NEVER let your child back there unattended. The Dentist already betrayed the parents trust by doing work with out asking.

No, no, no, this child should not be put through this. I just had a root canal and crown put on and it was very uncomfortable. It was $1500 so of course this dentist wants to be reimbursed for it. He will be traumatized.

If you would like I will call my own dentist tomorrow (they are closed this afternoon) and find out for sure.
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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  theresae on Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:24 pm

if the child was not accompained by an adult thats sound tantamount to abuse to me, doing all the work on his/her teeth without an adult present, god thats awful, where was the dental nurse did he/she witness this. that child must be very brave, my kids would have freaked big time if i pushed them through the door and this stranger started poking instruments in their mouth, their not keen now and they are 9 and 12.
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Shady dentist?

Post  Chinookgrl on Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:33 pm

There was a report of one of those news shows like 20/20 or 60 minutes about this a few months back.

It was about a state run dental care plan for kids. The system was being abused by dentists who were doing and extraordinary amount of work on kids. Some thought all this work was "created" to make more money. The parents were not allowed to be in the room with the children when they were getting the work done. Someone took a hidden camera in there, to show how the kids were being treated. Former staff was filing complaints.

I think of my kids and how their dental work has been handled in such a great setting by a pediatric dentist and it makes me sad that people/children/the system is being taken advantage of. THose poor kids so much work, and without a parent to help them through...so scarey for them.

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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  Anna's Mom on Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:44 pm

I don't have little kids, and I can't say how things are done these days (my kids are in their twenties).

But when my kids were little, someone from the staff would take the child "in the back," then I would be taken back later to discuss the issues with the dentist, I'd go back to the waiting room, and the work would be done without my presence. I'm sure I could have stayed with my child the whole time (we had a really nice dentist), but I guess I didn't see the need for it or want to do that.

Since the dentist didn't need to discuss cost with the mom, he just went ahead and did the work? What about consent? I just think this is so wrong, and believe me--the parents are upset.

I'm not sure they have many choices where they can go for the free care.

I really could not believe it!

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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  milo on Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:54 pm

As a health care professional myself, I take no offense to what Brent suggested, and I agree that a child that age never should be left alone during any type of physical exams.

I too immediately jumped to inappropriate touching but I work in a field where I deal with the outcomes of such so I often jump to that idea.

The whole thing sounds shady to me. Mostly because this was done without consent.
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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  Brent on Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:01 pm

In WA State it is illegal to to provide any health care w/o parental consent. Unless it's an emergency and the parents can not be contacted.

An exam is far different then a restorative procedure. I would contact your Dept. Of Health Dental Board and file a complaint. Don't be shocked to find out he may have a string of previous complaints or may be currently under investigation.
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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  CluelessKitty on Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:38 pm

I've never heard of root canals on baby teeth.

It depends on the tooth, it turns out. some teeth fall out sooner some later. if the gap is left too long it may cause uneven bite and other problems.
I found this information here:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080118200404AA51lOk

still I find this highly suspicious for such a huge amount of work all of a sudden, and would seek another opinion, even two.

Risa
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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  Paradox on Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:19 am

I did have crowns on all my baby teeth, BUT, it was because my baby teeth came in without enamel on them and had to be protected.

I still think something is very fishy though.
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Shady Dentist

Post  willow21 on Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:12 pm

Hi Cheryl,

There was a story on our local news just last week about this very same thing. An investigation into it showed that it was a huge scam on the part of the dentist to make money from the state by doing proceedures on children that were not necessary at all.

There were two dentists in our area who were found guilty of doing many dental proceedures on children without the parents consent.

They would take the children back without the parent, perform an unnecessary surgery, and then come out and tell the parents that their child needed a ton of additional dental work done. Many people were taken in by this scam.

Please tell your friend to take their kids to a different dentist for a second opinion.

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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  kathy on Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:57 pm

I'm surprised because I work at a free dental clinic for years and there was no billing to anyone.
Is this medicaid DDS? The parents should ask to be shown the evidence. Are there x-rays? The DDs can show the parents by using an explorer and sticking it where the decay is. If there is decay the explorer will stick.

The problem with baby teeth is they are there to reserve space for the perm. teeth. Thats why they place spacers in place of extracted baby teeth.

The parents can pick up an explorer at a drug store and check for themselves.

I hope the DDS didn't shock the parents with silver crowns. They come in bulk and we trim them to fit. If he is doing pulpotomies because the decay is into the root it is the only way to save them.

I'm confused because if it is a free clinic they want to get the patient in and out ASAP. And they are not paid anything. If it is a medicaid or health dept DDS they do get paid.

Ask if the DDS is a general dentist or childrens DDS.
Decay can happen like that, quickly. When Ryan was 2 he started getting decay, me the lif long dental assistant freaked because of all the care he got. Thing was shortly after a study showed that you can transfer decay tendancies to you child by sharing food, spoons.. Well everytime Ryan had yogurt I shared with him with his spoon. I stopped and after a year or so his decay stopped.
Hope this helped.
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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  kathy on Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:01 am

It is actually a pulpotomy or pulpectomy on baby teeth. It is different than with adult RCT. We used to see a lot of problems with kids going to bed with a bottle because a little always stayed in the mouth. After all the tx they were refered to as chrome domes. I'm betting that there was something slipped in the paper work they didn't see that allowed for the tx(treatment) Still at our free clinic we always talked to the parents first so they would know what was planned.

The dental board can be contacted to report this. I was working for a pedodontist and convinced my minister to bring his son in. He did a puplotomy and placed the crown then went and told the parents. They were so angry but had to pay the bill. They never came back and I don't blame them. The cost was triple.
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denitsts

Post  dawn.binks on Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:53 am

firstly the parent should have been in the room with a 5 year old child and the dentist should have had to point out the treatment to the mother to show what was needed. cant understand why a parent didnt go into the room. and seconldy there are some cases where you do have to crown all the baby teeth one condition is called dentinogenesisimperfecter where the teeth are malformed and you will just crumble all away unless you crown them , this isnt the case in this this child but crowning baby teeth is sometimes needed. doing rcts on baby teeth is also needed for various reasons if youre trying to keep the baby teeth in the mouth for as long as possible as the baby teeth are the guy ropes for the permanent teeth and can prevent orthodontic tx later in life if you keep the baby teeth in. ADVICE TO ALL PARENTS- GO INTO THE SURGERY WITH YOUR CHILD AND GET A SECOND OPINION IF YOU HAVE ANY CONCERNS!!
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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  nursebeth on Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:06 am

One of the hospitals that I work for has a dentist that routinely does "dental rehab" for young children in the OR under general anesthesia.
ALL of these children are on state assistence.
If this is a ROUTINE sort of procedure, I don't understand why I don't see children with other types of insurance.
I understand that there are circumstances where this is necessary, being the exception rather than the rule...... this guy's practice really sets off my hinky alarms.. as does the dentist you are referring to Cheryl.

beth
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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  Anna's Mom on Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:43 am

I'll ask my co-worker what happened to this boy (her grandson). Yes, it was a Medicaid (MA) paid treatment.

The reason I was questioning it is because this may be the only dentist in our community who takes MA patients. Anna qualifies for MA care, and I could probably take her to this guy's practice. I just want him to be honest! She doesn't need any unnecessary trauma.

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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  kathy on Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:34 pm

This is definately shady. More than likely he is paid for by the state. Have them contact the state dental board to find out any complaints. They can also check on line .

Crowns on baby teeth are to keep the tooth and the space for the permanent teeth. A baby tooth lost a year or so earlier than expected can impact the eruption of the perm tooth. You may see kids with space maintainers to keep space open. You usually see silver crowns on the front teeth of children if they have been sleeping with bottles of milk. The teeth get bathed in sugar all night and the teeth decay.

They do what is called a pulpotomy or pulpectomy on baby teeth. RCT for baby teeth.

This guy was so far out of line it could be illegal.
Did he take xrays? Did he show the parents xrays? Did he demonstrate the decay by using an explorer? They should take the films and ask a DDS to look at them someone would do it for free. Any dental work is an invasive medical procedure and can be harmful to the child's emotional health and dental health.

They really need to look into the DDS that has done this. I'm betting this is not the first time he has done this.
Cheryl, I don't get here often but I am always looking for an update on Anna. How is she doing?
Kathy Very Happy

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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  Anna's Mom on Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:43 pm

Someone brought up this old thread.

Kathy, I sent you a private message.

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Re: Shady Dentist?

Post  stephgood on Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:07 pm

My kid is 2 and I was told to take him in between 2&1/2 and 3 for his first dental visit, so as of yet I have not had to deal with this. I would be PISSED if ANY DR did ANYTHING to my kid before first discussing it with me AT ANY AGE-PERIOD. I would not allow my child at 5 to be alone with the Dentist, or any Dr simpy because it is a scary situation. I am not one of those Mom's that freak easily. When my kid has vaccinations or DR appts, I am right there holding him down with the staff.

It is necessary to have parental consent for a procedure, any procedure, and if there isn't a law for this already there should be. In cases where it is medically necessary and the parents/guardians cannot be reached that is one thing, but you just don't perform precedures on a five year old without the parents knowledge. What about allergies and stuff like that??? This is a very irresponsible Dr and he should be investigated!! He will have nothing to worry about if all is well, except he crossed a line with the parents!
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